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Baby Victoria verdict is in

228 replies

LetsGoRoundAgainAgain · 14/07/2025 14:37

Both found guilty of manslaughter.

Thank goodness.

OP posts:
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7
LetsGoRoundAgainAgain · 14/07/2025 21:52

InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 14/07/2025 21:11

Wtf. Her children wouldn’t have been at risk if he’d have been imprisoned. Which he should have been, for a long time, for that brutal attack. Horrendous.

What are you talking about? Constance was found guilty of manslaughter too.not just him.

Why the desperation to not blame this woman or hold her accountable?

OP posts:
snughugs · 14/07/2025 21:53

I actually feel Constance is mentally ill and the best place for her is away from her Mark. Poor children, just tragic. I think she’ll get better, he’s a dangerous man and a lost cause.

ClownStar · 14/07/2025 21:56

soupyspoon · 14/07/2025 21:15

I doubt it, she'll control lots of vulnerable women in there, shes a manipulator, entitled, probably PD, she'll act the victim and want special treatment, make accusations against others if she doesnt get her way, also against officers although she 'll probably try to manipulate them too

It sounds like you're spot on from this article https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/constance-marten-life-prison-jail-7vjrql7dh

Constance Marten’s life in jail: killer friends and magazine covers

The 38-year-old from an aristocratic family befriends inmates at HMP Bronzefield, while boyfriend, Mark Gordon, lives in fear of other prisoners at HMP Belmarsh

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/constance-marten-life-prison-jail-7vjrql7dh

InNewYorkNoShoes · 14/07/2025 21:58

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMGCzYSohz4/?igsh=MTYwN2NueW0zZTJncA==

Here is when they are caught, he’s asking for food and not answering where the baby is.

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMGCzYSohz4/?igsh=MTYwN2NueW0zZTJncA%3D%3D

BabyCatFace · 14/07/2025 22:02

The push out of the window was found more likely than not to have been caused by mark Gordon in a fact find in the family court. That doesn't mean he can be convicted for the crime or even that he definitely did it. He almost certainly did based on the judge's findings but they still didn't see it happen. Without an eye witness or a victim statement police can't pursue an investigation.

Lunde · 14/07/2025 22:09

BabyCatFace · 14/07/2025 22:02

The push out of the window was found more likely than not to have been caused by mark Gordon in a fact find in the family court. That doesn't mean he can be convicted for the crime or even that he definitely did it. He almost certainly did based on the judge's findings but they still didn't see it happen. Without an eye witness or a victim statement police can't pursue an investigation.

Yes . it was the family court judge who found he had pushed her. But I think the burden is "balance of probability" in family court ie more evidence than not that he did it. However this is a much lower burden than the "beyond reasonable doubt" required for a criminal conviction - especially with her telling police that she "fell" and they were wrong to blame him.

Lunde · 14/07/2025 22:42

For those who haven't read it the BBC article is well worth a read about their selfishness in prioritising themselves and lack of concern for their children's' welfare and extensive dealings with social services over a 5½ year period

2017
Marten and Gordon return travelling around South America and she is 4 months pregnant
They travelled through a country during an outbreak of the Zika virus and and the London hospital was concerned that Marten missed check-ups and then disappeared. The hospital was worried enough to put out a "national alert". Marten's family also hired a private detective to find her.
She turned up months later in Wales after going into labour and using the name Isabella O'Brien with a fake Irish accent,
Unconvinced and, remembering the national alert issued in London, the hospital called the police. There was a physical altercation on the ward and Gordon was arrested and later sentenced to 20 weeks in prison for assaulting two female police officers.

2018
In the first court judgment a psychiatrist warned that Gordon had "the capacity to act in a violent manner"
Gordon spent the initial weeks of their first baby's life in Cardiff prison, while Marten stayed in mother and baby placements. When Gordon was released, Marten travelled to visit him in London, leaving the newborn behind for 17 hours.
The judge found the couple had "poor decision-making skills" and a "potential to act impulsively". "There are some concerns that on occasions these parents prioritise their own relationship over [their baby's] needs,"
They were warned about sleeping with a newborn on her chest - Marten reportedly said she had taken the advice on board.
There was a 6 month supervision order. But almost immediately they left Wales for London.
They lived in a series of houses in London often leaving without paying rent - despite Marten's income from a family trust fund.
A 2nd baby was born at home A private midwife was called but Marten had given birth. Gordon refused to tell the midwife his name, and became angry when she called an ambulance.

2019
Marten was pregnant with a 3rd child. A local authority in London alleged domestic abuse between Marten and Gordon, that they had failed to provide for their children's medical needs, and that they attempted to evade an investigation into their welfare.
The judge argued legal proceedings in front of her were "protracted and delayed", mainly because the parents failed to attend hearings giving a series of excuses.
A neighbour was woken by screaming in the early hours of the morning and saw Marten falling from a first-floor window and landing on a car. Gordon did not call 999, but someone else did. When paramedics arrived, Marten was inside the house screaming: "Help me, help me." She spent 8 days in hospital with a ruptured spleen and lacerations to a kidney. She was 14 weeks pregnant, but the baby survived.
Gordon told police officers he and Marten had both fallen out of the window trying to fix the TV aerial. The judge ruled "I find on the balance of probabilities that the father caused the mother to fall out of the window. I am not able to find whether he pushed her or whether she fell during a struggle. The former may be more likely."
Marten fled with her two children to a hotel in Ireland. She was eventually persuaded to return, a month later. The two children were removed from her on arrival, and she has never got them back. The 3rd child was taken into care when they refused to go to a residential assessment

2021
Judge Reardon found Gordon was likely to have perpetrated a serious act of violence on Marten, so it would be natural for her to fear him, she said. But despite this, she formed the view that it was Marten who was the "dominant personality".
"The strong impression given by the parents is that of two people who are fiercely united in an unrelenting struggle against a non-existent opponent," she said.
"I conclude that the parents have repeatedly prioritised their own need for privacy and secrecy above their children's health."Essentially, these parents have rolled the dice three times in refusing the vast majority of standard maternity and newborn healthcare and checks. They have been lucky each time, but plenty of pregnancies do involve complications which, if unchecked or untreated, can become life-threatening for the mother or the baby or both."
They repeatedly missed contact sessions with the children, and stopped visiting altogether. Their eldest child became distressed and developed a stammer. "My mummy and daddy cancelled again," the child told nursery staff.
[sometime in 2021 a 4th child was born)

2022
Decision to permanently remove all 4 children
Judge ruled she had to balance that against the risk of harm to the children, caused by the likelihood of exposure to violence between the parents and their attempts to avoid local authority intervention.
"Perhaps most hurtful, from the children's point of view, is their parents' baffling lack of commitment to them over the course of these lengthy proceedings and their inability, or unwillingness, to do what needed to be done in order to reclaim them," Judge Reardon said.

8 months later the couple went on the run - Marten was pregnant with Victoria

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11x1xgj78o

Graphic showing Constance Marten holding a child, against a background of redacted court papers

Court papers reveal Constance Marten and Mark Gordon’s failures as parents

A years-long court case, which ended with the couple's four children being taken into care, can now be reported.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd11x1xgj78o

AloeVeraAloeFred · 14/07/2025 22:45

InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 14/07/2025 21:11

Wtf. Her children wouldn’t have been at risk if he’d have been imprisoned. Which he should have been, for a long time, for that brutal attack. Horrendous.

I don't think this is true. At one point after the birth of one of their children, Gordon was imprisoned for 20 weeks, for assaulting 2 police officers. In that time, Constance went to a mother and baby unit where she drunk concealed bottles of alcohol and neglected her baby. Without him in the picture at all.

3678194b · 14/07/2025 22:52

Correct verdict. Gordon should never have been released, as he was sentenced to 40 years in the USA but sent back to the UK half way through then released. How he raped at knife point that poor, poor lady in the USA. Why did Constance ever get into a relationship with him?!

To think they already had 4 children, all taken from them and poor little Victoria, their fifth child. Poor babe. And poor children of theirs, I hope they've been placed with loving and caring families.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 14/07/2025 22:55

AloeVeraAloeFred · 14/07/2025 22:45

I don't think this is true. At one point after the birth of one of their children, Gordon was imprisoned for 20 weeks, for assaulting 2 police officers. In that time, Constance went to a mother and baby unit where she drunk concealed bottles of alcohol and neglected her baby. Without him in the picture at all.

They are both obviously terrible people but I'm stuck pondering what happened to make then so. What turns a 14 year old into a violent psychopath and a highly privileged woman into such a neglectful mother.

How were neither of them able to feel any concern for their own baby, who should have been even more precious to them after (rightly) losing their other children.

I suspect we'll never really know and since neither of them seem capable of remorse or sorrow I doubt they'll suffer much in prison regardless of how long a sentence they each received.

SameOldMe · 14/07/2025 22:57

Can't help but feel sorry for Constance, that she was manipulated and coerced into what she did. Domestic abuse can affect anyone, rich or not. I don't know all the facts and I would love to know as you can't believe what the news sensationalises to sell a story.
i do know that I truly believed that my ex abusing me was my fault. Had 3 children with the bastard. He would stangle me when pregnant and the others would bite him to get him off, still couldn't leave him. He had such a hold. Only when my daughter starting calling me a effing cunt (which is how he spoke , and when she said it he said good) that I finally saw the light and was able to leave, 14 years down the line. I considered myself a strong independent women before I met him. RIP Victoria

whengodwasarabbit1 · 14/07/2025 23:29

That poor poor baby. I hate that the media is focusing pretty much solely on her though. That man is pure evil.

DiscoNights · 14/07/2025 23:31

He is a piece of shit. I had to stop reading the article about him attacking the woman when he was 14 - it was just too upsetting. I feel terrible for the woman he raped and I wish he’d never been let out of prison.

He disgusts me.

AloeVeraAloeFred · 14/07/2025 23:35

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 14/07/2025 22:55

They are both obviously terrible people but I'm stuck pondering what happened to make then so. What turns a 14 year old into a violent psychopath and a highly privileged woman into such a neglectful mother.

How were neither of them able to feel any concern for their own baby, who should have been even more precious to them after (rightly) losing their other children.

I suspect we'll never really know and since neither of them seem capable of remorse or sorrow I doubt they'll suffer much in prison regardless of how long a sentence they each received.

Edited

Personally I suspect it is multifactorial. Genetic predisposition to delusional/paranoid thinking + fucked up family who model that kind of thinking and/or who model generally poor values, and/or are simply absent in some crucial way so don't imprint any values leaving the child open to unsavoury influences and/or Lord of the Flies style child-like underdeveloped moral system +/- comorbid with traumatic formative experiences + lack of positive influences / role models

Actually in Gordon's case things are a great deal more obscure. But we know that Constance was from a very unusual aristocratic family (I feel there are some very significant issues with moral values within some families belonging to that "class") and went to boarding school at a very young age, and that her mother was herself fucked up enough to be interested in extremist abusive religious cults to the extent that she took Constance to one as a teenager. What happened at boarding school? What happened at the cult in Nigeria? It seems that Constance was/is drawn to being controlled/abused.

You get people who survive abusive / traumatic child hoods relatively intact, but it seems that usually in order to do so, there is usually at least one, even only one vital positive bond/influence, even a friend or a teacher. And I wonder if some people have intrinsic/genetic predilection to personality disorder that comes out with traumatic experiences, and other people are just inherently more likely to come through as a functional person even though they may have similar experiences.

Then meeting Gordon seems to have brought out the absolute worst of her potential.

He obviously is even more fucked up given what he did aged 14 but there's a lot less out there to analyse about his upbringing. There is some evidence that "psychopaths" as we think of them (eg as people who do evil things) require a combination of basically a differently wired brain from conception, and an abusive or poorly role modelled upbringing. But that the same wiring in a nurturing household with good examples still yields a "psychopath" according to psychometric testing, but one who functions in society without criminality (becoming a surgeon or whatever).

AloeVeraAloeFred · 14/07/2025 23:49

Wanted to add some people are also permanently altered by misuse of drugs, particularly if they have developed drug induced paranoid psychosis from which they simply don't fully recover (no longer psychotic but experience relative cognitive impairment and personality changes). Constance does seem like a relatively normal person in her younger years whereas clearly Gordon was profoundly disturbed and a violent sexual criminal by the age of just 14.

softlyfallsthesnow · 14/07/2025 23:55

The video in the cafe is chilling. The baby was just dumped into the buggy like a sack of potatoes. No care or concern and barely dressed at all. She is obviously clueless about even the most basic of a baby's care and needs. Or didn't care.

No one in the cafe seemed to notice, nor did the taxi driver who knew people matching their description were wanted think to report them.

Whether they even gave the baby a name before they were caught, I rather doubt. They like playing games.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 15/07/2025 00:16

@AloeVeraAloeFredI suspect they both have serious mental health issues. People who fight so hard against so much, who are excessively combative, sometimes do have.

whynotwhatknot · 15/07/2025 00:36

does the same judge sentence them

i bloody hope he goes to town on them

squishee · 15/07/2025 03:50

LemonTreeGrove · 14/07/2025 15:51

I remember when this case was first in the news, there were people posting that the UK has a reputation of removing children from parents far too easily. I don't agree. I think they are not removed enough and I don't think being from a country where children are left with abusive parents even more than the UK is anything to be proud of.

I agree. When I read Victoria in this thread title I couldn't help but think of Victoria Climbié as well.

AuntyHistamine · 15/07/2025 06:36

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 14/07/2025 17:15

I'm not suggesting she wasn't a victim of shocking abuse or that other wealthy women aren't but unlike many victims she had the ability to start again. At any point she could have used her wealth, her connections to get away from him but she chose not to. When she faced a choice to leave him or lose her children she chose to lose her children. I'll reserve my sympathy for the women who are trapped because of a lack of options. Those who stay because they have nowhere to go.

On one occasion she fell from a 1st floor window while pregnant with another child. She claimed to have slipped while fixing a TV aerial. It was concluded by the judge that he more than likely helped her 'slip'.

healthybychristmas · 15/07/2025 06:48

SameOldMe · 14/07/2025 22:57

Can't help but feel sorry for Constance, that she was manipulated and coerced into what she did. Domestic abuse can affect anyone, rich or not. I don't know all the facts and I would love to know as you can't believe what the news sensationalises to sell a story.
i do know that I truly believed that my ex abusing me was my fault. Had 3 children with the bastard. He would stangle me when pregnant and the others would bite him to get him off, still couldn't leave him. He had such a hold. Only when my daughter starting calling me a effing cunt (which is how he spoke , and when she said it he said good) that I finally saw the light and was able to leave, 14 years down the line. I considered myself a strong independent women before I met him. RIP Victoria

How is your daughter after you left? Does she see her dad? How does she talk to you now?

AuntyHistamine · 15/07/2025 07:41

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 14/07/2025 22:55

They are both obviously terrible people but I'm stuck pondering what happened to make then so. What turns a 14 year old into a violent psychopath and a highly privileged woman into such a neglectful mother.

How were neither of them able to feel any concern for their own baby, who should have been even more precious to them after (rightly) losing their other children.

I suspect we'll never really know and since neither of them seem capable of remorse or sorrow I doubt they'll suffer much in prison regardless of how long a sentence they each received.

Edited

His mother mentioned in one report I read yesterday that he was sexualy abused as a child when they lived in Birmingham, hence why she moved to America for a new start. Perhaps in part that's what happened to make him so.

LetsGoRoundAgainAgain · 15/07/2025 07:45

whynotwhatknot · 15/07/2025 00:36

does the same judge sentence them

i bloody hope he goes to town on them

Yes he will do the sentencing. I'm not sure if court behaviour is something that he can add on time for, I'm not sure.

OP posts:
SameOldMe · 15/07/2025 08:02

healthybychristmas · 15/07/2025 06:48

How is your daughter after you left? Does she see her dad? How does she talk to you now?

They are all deeply affected by their childhood. Although better still need a lot of work. she gets the odd phone call only from dad.

Lalgarh · 15/07/2025 08:31

Is Gordon's previous conviction in the US going to be a factor in his sentencing now?

I'm aware of one domestic violence murderer who served a sentence in the UK then moved back to new Zealand and offended again, but his previous crimes weren't taken into account BC not carried out in that country

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