Baby Victoria verdict is in

[LetsGoRoundAgainAgain]

Both found guilty of manslaughter.

Thank goodness.

And/or Earl Spencer's recent memoir.

Especially as Mark Gordon, a convicted rapist, had previously served 20 weeks in jail for attacking and harming 2 female police officers in the maternity unit after the birth of his first child.

?
Plenty of crimes don't have an eyewitness or a victim statement and end in prosecution. I would be absolutely amazed if there was no other evidence whatsoever. I suspect what actually happened was she lied about him not being responsible, and the police just took her word for it (for whatever reason) and didn't bother to investigate further.

And to be clear, no, I do not trust the police to do their job properly, particularly in domestic violence cases.

The neighbours witnessed it as did the ambulance service, whose attempts to get Constance medical help was hindered by Mark Gordon. A shattered spleen whilst 12 weeks pregnant is no joke.

The neighbours didn't witness him push her - just her falling.

Marten told police that he didn't push her and they both told a strange story about climbing out to fix the TV ariel when she fell

Gordon told the ambulance crew that he fell as well - although he was not injured - but they may have put his aggression down to a possible head injury at the time

The CPS likely did not have enough evidence for "beyond reasonable doubt" with the victim adamant that she wasn't pushed - but it's clear they think he did

I completely agree with this. She certainly had a personality disorder with paranoid traits (paranoid personality disorder, which also accounts for her lack of emotion, arrogance and defensiveness) and was subject to abuse by him. But she also reportedly yelled at him constantly. I think that they were equals in a very toxic relationship. I think that you have summarised her and their relationship perfectly.

So Marten told the police that during her eight days stay in hospital? Why wasn't Gordons previous 20 weeks in jail for aggravated assault against two police officers taken into account?

Taken into account for what? The prosecution cannot introduce previous convictions as evidence. It would have been relevant for sentencing had he been prosecuted and convicted, but it wouldn't have helped them to get a conviction. With no eyewitnesses to the push and Marten saying he didn't push her, it is unlikely he would have been convicted.

Edited to add that there are limited circumstances in which previous prosecutions can be introduced, but they wouldn't have applied here.

You can't introduce evidence of previous crimes until someone is being sentenced having been found guilty.

You can't say - because he did crime A he likely did crime B.

With a hostile victim a prosecution is hard enough - but I think she disappeared after leaving hospital and fled to Ireland

Not even on a deported rapist from the US who had served half his sentence? You can't possibly ignore that Martens family didn't know about him and if they knew his past then surely the police also knew as well as the CBS.

But he's served his sentence.

Let's hope it's another 20 years for Gordon. 72 years old on release. Only to specialist probation centres nowhere near women.

I 100% agree with you, @Arraminta She made her own choices and put herself and her own needs above those of her children time and time again. He is a monster but in many ways, she is just as bad.

If you were going to be put into a room alone with either Marten or Gordon for 24 hours, who would you pick?

Well that's something of an unanswerable question because, in terms of physical safety, a woman is always going to feel they can defend themselves better against another woman. In terms of withstanding psychological torment and tolerating bullshit, I think they'd be as bad as each other.

In other words you wouldn't be safe with Mark Gordon.

That's a straw man argument and you know it.
I wouldn't have chosen to spend time with him and repeatedly gone back to do so again and again having been offered safer options.

If you are a man then you would pick Mark Gordon.

That's an interesting comment. Why do you think so?

All your question demonstrated was that most men will be able to over power most women. It doesn't negate the fact that CM is a monster. Women can be just as evil as men, if not more.

It doesn't matter what the previous conviction is for. We try people based on the evidence for the offence with which they are charged, not based on previous convictions. The police and CPS may well have known about his past, but that would not have helped them get a conviction in this case. They weren't allowed to use it in the latest case either.

I agree, the threshold for removal Is actually very high. I've no sympathy for anyone but the children involved. CM always had a choice.

You think men would pick Gordon? Why?

As an adult or a new born baby?

Several people already responded to this earlier in the thread. Apparently she was loaded thanks to a huge trust fund.