Baby Victoria verdict is in

[LetsGoRoundAgainAgain]

Both found guilty of manslaughter.

Thank goodness.

No, why would it? He's already been sentenced for that crime and his sentencing now will be for this crime.

Both of them are an absolute disgrace. They prioritised their own toxic relationship over the welfare of their children.

Yes but tbf your previous character is a factor when determining sentences. He’s been in prison before both abroad and in this country. He also was breaching his probation conditions when he went on the run. By contrast, Constance was of “previous good character”. So he may well get a longer sentence (though I doubt by much).

Re that comment from the judge that he'd never been spoken to in the way this pair had behaved so in court.

Comment from elsewhere but a barrister was commenting that quite a lot of ppl in court get off convictions and guilty verdicts simply BC they carry themselves well and esp speak with a posh accent and demeanor. Marten probably thought she could carry on as per her ancestors and get this inconvenience over and done with. That's privileges for you.

Surely by that logic she'd do the opposite of what she did and deploy her posh accent and play up her background?

It seems like she did:

"I'm extremely tired and I am irate that this word 'deliberate' keeps being expounded in this courtroom," she said.

She had no hesitation in trying to look educated.

Asking the judge if she could 'nip out for a coffee because we're falling asleep here'

It's absolutely mind-blowing.

Lady muck.

Still, British aristocrats being ferociously screwed up isn't exactly a revelation to anyone familiar with Brideshead Revisited, Patrick Melrose, Saltburn or even Withnail

This isn’t about the verdict but something I noticed in some of the cctv images. Marten was carrying the baby in her coat but the coat was completely done up. How could the baby breathe?

I know lots of their actions showed they could not care for a baby safely and that’s why the baby died but the coat thing struck me yesterday as something so basic and odd and unsafe. No one would carry a baby like that.

She killed her baby through neglect . It seems she wasn't really concerned about how Victoria could breathe.

This is so disturbing and sad in equal measures. Ultimately I feel sad for baby Victoria and also her siblings. I do have some sympathy for the mother but feel she should feel the full force of the law as she is accountable for the decisions she made. I was reading today about her upbringing and her parents are portrayed as neglectful. I think Marten has had a difficult life but as an adult her behaviour is inexcusable.

Exactly this.
I guess her thought processes aren't like most people's. Keeping the baby alive was way down the list.
I don't envy the people who have to manage her in prison as she's likely to be a malevolent influence on other prisoners, apart from a nightmare to deal with.

When do they get sentenced?

One of the most explosive moments in the couple's retrial happened when Marten was giving evidence. She suddenly blurted out to the jury that her husband had a "violent rape conviction".
We all knew about Gordon's previous conviction. But the jury didn't.
To ensure he received a fair trial, an order preventing the media from reporting Gordon's previous offences was put in place. It was never mentioned in front of the jury.

Wasn’t the information about the rape in the media when they were looking for the couple initially? Was it just when there was going to be a trial they stopped reporting on this?

This bit I am finding a bit odd. I happen to live about a mile from the estate the family live in. They have a lot of land and lots of houses and over the last year loads has been sold off to pay for the court case. Her aunt specifically said they were funding it. Obviously this is not the case.

Agree. She was your typical swishy-haired posh bitch, grown bored with her life of utter bohemian privilege. So she decided to liven things up, by cos-playing at being a gypsy rebel, thumbing her partician nose at the establishment. But happy to dip into her multi million trust fund as needed, of course.

But now it's all gone wrong and she's furious that the serfs are daring to question her actions.

There is a class solidarity amongst aristos btw

Charles Spencer, himself a complete git to his wife, went public about the abuse he suffered in boarding school he had other compatriots shun him for breaking rank

https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/charles-spencer-memoir-sex-abuse-princess-diana-saltburn-class-system-b1144534.html

Yes it was. I think the idea that none of the jurors knew about the rape conviction was optimistic.

Folie a Deux. They're still besotted with each other and apparently are married

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn0zkg4g4zyo

A couple who were twice in the dock over the death of their newborn baby, they appeared to be completely in love and still fiercely united. And yet they had utter contempt for the court process.

They caused chaos across their two trials, which both overran by months. At one point, the Old Bailey's most senior judge accused them of trying to "sabotage" and "manipulate" their retrial. It nearly collapsed a number of times.

Their behaviour - from refusing to turn up to court and claiming to be ill, to sacking countless barristers and Gordon's trousers even being misplaced one day - left His Honour Judge Mark Lucraft KC exasperated on many occasions.
At one point he said two teenagers, who had been in his court the previous week, were "rather better behaved" than Marten, adding: "And they pleaded guilty to murder."

The whole thing is very odd and very sad. He is clearly an extremely dangerous individual who should never be allowed out. I can’t work her out at all. No doubt a victim of domestic violence but potentially also quite messed up to have gotten herself into that situation in the first place.

From the description of Marten's behaviour, I can't believe she's thirty-eight. She sounds like a fifteen-year-old: blowing kisses to Gordon, loudly asking him to stop flirting with her, asking to nip out for a coffee... all during a trial over her own baby's death. With parents like that, poor Victoria never had a chance.

Lots of men in prisons have had a difficult early life but no-one’s feeling sorry for them. Marten had so many options to get out but chose to stay with the rapist. She has also shown no remorse whatsoever over the death of her baby nor the neglect of her other children. Why on earth would anyone feel sorry for her?? She is not a victim in this case.

@Lalgarh Charles Spencer, himself a complete git to his wife, went public about the abuse he suffered in boarding school he had other compatriots shun him for breaking rank

I'd have stopped at the 'complete git' to be honest. I can't summon up an ounce of sympathy for such a narcissist.

...but I get your point

The sentencing guidelines don't allow for that. However, they are both facing many years in prison.

A life sentence is available for manslaughter and I can't see why they should get less than that.

Judges have to comply with the sentencing guidelines unless there are exceptional reasons to step outside them. The maximum sentence allowed for gross negligence manslaughter is 18 years. I may be wrong, but I don't think there is enough in this case to justify the judge going beyond the maximum in the guidelines.