Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Yes, in a public loo. I was alone (other than this person) and it was worrying to know that I was in a secluded place alone with a male-bodied person when I had expected it to be a woman-only place.

Dinosauratemydaffodils

This is the point. Women don’t know who is a predator until it is too late. Hence the need for single sex spaces. If you spend the rest of your life never having a bad experience does not negate the fact that if you don’t understand that, you are a bit thick, frankly.

OK... that's my point. You are bothered by it. Many aren't.

I was in a gym a few years ago and there was a long haired man who came out of the female changing rooms and then went to work out (therefore wasn't the cleaner). I had no idea how he identified but he was clearly a man.
The trouble is, even if you haven't met a transwoman in a female space, we all know that men are going in to female spaces (just read this thread) and that it would be very difficult to know how to work out what to do in that situation. Therefore all women are impacted by the fear that this situation could arise whenever we go into female spaces. I still have no idea what I'd do in that situation, especially if I was concerned about that person's behaviour and I was vulnerable/it was dark/there was no one around etc. Is the law on my side if I raise any concerns? I've no idea.

Yes. Public toilets. I was more bothered by the fact they were clearly high on something. I live somewhere there are a lot of trans people and I see quite a few transwomen annd men around but that’s the only time I’ve seen a transwoman in a female only space. I’ve seen more transmen in female toilets.

Toilets are pretty much the only single-sex spaces I use nowadays, though And I’m not that bothered about toilets being single sex, for myself, though I understand a lot of women are and I think that’s valid. Changing rooms, single-sex sleeping accommodation, etc. and groups for survivors of sexual assault are where I’d be concerned.

Yes. A Tesco home delivery driver. Husband away. Small children asleep upstairs. Normally they would wait outside the kitchen door and let me take one crate at a time, empty it onto the table and return the crate to swap with the next one. This bloke must have been 6ft tall and had a bee belly. He pushed his way into my kitchen with a crate. In the light it became apparent that he had nail varnish, make up and prosthetic boobs. No idea if he was transgender, a cross-dresser or what. He didn't do anything, but I didn't feel safe. I haven't used home delivery since.

How often you encounter them will depend where you spend your time. I don’t use communal changing rooms and haven’t for many years.

There are many working in technology ie. male dominated work environment with toxic view towards women. One industry event I attended years ago with several hundred people present the transwomen outnumbered the women.

I’ve left two work places to escape unwanted sexual attention from transwomen colleagues. Never knowingly encountered a transman at work but percentage of females is low.

I’ve seen several transwomen out and about in supermarkets including encountering them in ladies toilets (once the giveaway that made me actually look at them and realise was that they were ‘taking up a lot of space’ and obstructing access to several sinks at once with their bags) again I’ve not knowingly encountered a transman out and about. But it tends to be the absurdly stereotypical clothes/make-up, exaggerated mannerisms, sense of entitlement and sheer size that gives it away to me for the transwomen and since many women don’t wear make-up, have short hair and wear jeans & tee shirts/hoodies I’m unsure how I’d tell someone was a transman or how they’d tell that I wasn’t .

Secondary school teachers I know report huge numbers of girls they teach identifying as trans. I don’t go anywhere where I typically encounter many teenagers so I haven't knowingly encountered any.

My little sister, who is a lesbian, also experienced a loud, aggressive, pushy and homophobic transwoman in her uni lesbian support group. The transwoman came in with "her" girlfriend, and within just one meeting was arguing with the women about how they're transphobic for not wanting to date transwomen. She said she and many of the others refused to go back whilst "she" was there, because "she" didn't make them feel safe at all.

Exactly.

Women don’t know who is a predator until it is too late.

This in spades. When people wang on about “Just because they’re a trans woman doesn’t mean they’re a sexual predator”, the answer is “They probably aren’t, no, but some ARE* and therefore all need to be excluded because there is no way of telling who is or isn’t in here with abusive intentions”.

*see also: women raped in prisons by transwomen, women raped in hospitals by transwomen, so on and so forth.

The point is that many women are bothered @IWineAndDontDine.

Elderly women are being prevented from exercising. Ethnic minority women are being prevented from exercising.

The presence of a single man in the shared changing room can mean 20 or 30 women stop physical exercise and socialising with other women.

I don't believe one person should be able to have such a negative impact on a large group of other people.

Quoting this again because it says it all.

And yes to both.

My 6 year old daughter has a trans child in her class, which is so depressing I could cry.

There was a transwoman in my work changing room. They minded their own business and got on with it and didn't bother anyone. It didn't bother me, but if they were an exhibitionist, looking for a reaction, I would have minded very much.

Yes. I'm involved in a male dominated activity where the males can be a bit blokey, so we set up a women's group. Lo and behold a transwoman invites themselves and immediately partakes in the type of behaviour that had led us to create a separate group in the first place 🙄. The group is now half the size.

But also, I play a racquet sport. Sometimes I play women's and sometimes mixed doubles. We had a transman join us for a while and it was actually quite difficult. They insisted on playing as a man, but there is a big difference between male and female players, especially at a low to middle skill set. Who ever they partnered was let down and they eventually left as they felt discriminated against.

Yes have worked with a colleague (male to female)
No issues for me at all
Some of the males were not so openly accepting
This was a predominantly male working environment

Some countries like Thailand which I have visited are much more tolerant

Years ago that would have meant being male but asking for societal politeness not to mention it. Using female spaces - with women pretending not to notice, lowering their gaze and leaving as quickly and quietly as possible, maybe reminding themselves to "be nice" as they did so.

Nowadays TRAs, as opposed to the trans people I actually know, want it to means women needing to shut the fuck up and give up all expectations of single sex spaces, services, sports etc.

And to have all signs of actual sex to be removed. Hence the horror show I tried to describe earlier. And yes, this is a thing. Stonewalls' submission to a Women and Equalities Select Committee states baldly that sex needs to be replaced with gender.

www.stonewall.org.uk/women-and-equalities-select-committee-inquiry-transgender-equality

A review of the Equality Act 2010 to include ‘gender identity’ rather than ‘gender reassignment’ as a protected characteristic and to remove exemptions, such as access to single-sex spaces

...transwomen using women’s spaces and dd and her friends just laugh (to themselves) as she doesn’t have a clue two of them are trans. I suspect this is true for a lot of the women who get worked up about these things on these and other threads

Said by someone who in all probability isn't a victim of sexual violence. Other women are allowed to feel differently to you, for various reasons. This would be one of them. Surely you can see that?

I think schools are worrying. Local secondary school have a group of they/them's who search to recruit new non-binary/trans members for their cause. Usually targeting ASD and vulnerable kids. They seem to love the power, always trying to catch people out misgendering them. They change their name and gender on a regular basis . The staff are petrified of offending them.

One joined a women's autism group I belonged to. They used to meet up for social stuff.

I think there are many great points to that side of the argument, but imo that's not one of them. People choosing not to attend something because of someones presence (who has frankly done nothing wrong) is a terrible argument and that would leave many people open to discrimination.

Tell that to women in prison, across Europe, the UK, USA etc.

Or don't you care to know about the state sanctioned sexual attacks, rape, in the female estate? Does it not fit your idea of transwomen?

I don’t think this is really about trans people who might or might not ‘pass’. There used to be a trans woman at work who behaved normally. It’s really about creeps and perves who are using any opportunity to harass and intimidate women.

I have seen men in women’s toilets in several instances over the last couple of years. Including at pubs and a hotel in Ireland, a service station, theatre and department store in the UK.

My daughter in her 20s was assaulted by a male who followed her into the toilets at a bar in London and nobody batted an eyelid.

Yes in a toilet in a theatre.

I complained to the staff and was told that the person could use whatever toilet they chose.