Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Strangely enough I have come across this quite a lot especially in work settings. In a former job one of the drivers transitioned male to female, it was a very male dominated environment. Probably controversially, I currently work in a care role and one of my colleagues is a trans person, dresses female and goes by female name.
Local well known shop keeper dramatically many years ago, much to local communities surprise transitioned.

Could people submit responses anonymously?

Ah but what are they?

Single use cubicles with ceiling height doors and walls or the same old spaces with different labels on the doors?

Yes to the second. A woman only Freedom group, which was particularly upsetting.

I feel like the experiences being retold on this thread will be fodder for the wrong kind of bloke so while not getting into the specifics:
.. yes to both and also in a professional and private setting and it was horrible in all cases.

I really don’t want to be in small, lockable and secluded spaces with men. I don’t care how they identify. And I am perfectly happy to be in those spaces with other women, however those other women identify.
Same sex female spaces are already ‘gender neutral’. They don’t need to be changed or made into solo cubicles to appease anyone’s identity beliefs. Nobody cares what other people believe in a small space, so long as you’re also female. All the statistics back this up.
Men have a duty to make other men feel comfortable in make only spaces however those men identify. Why do women have to sort out make violence? That’s quite obviously something for men to sort out between themselves. Women and girls are not to be used as human shields. There is no acceptable amount of VAWG as collateral damage to validate the feelings of men.

And that’s the opposite of being anti-trans so all the frothers on here slagging off MN can piss off.

Yes, in a busy women's toilets.

I found out after a few months of working with a woman that she was trans. It occurred to me years later that we’d shared the (individually cubicled) changing rooms before Zumba a few times, both before and after I’d known. Total non issue and I never felt uncomfortable.

@TheMarzipanDildo

Your example not be a 'phenomena only in the imagination of MN,' but for a THIRD of everyone you are friends with to be 'trans or NB' is a VERY high proportion.

I don't know a soul in any age group, not even young millennial/Gen Z, whose friendship groups includes 1 in 3 trans or NB people. Surely you must know this is not a typical example?!

I find it quite telling that of the trans women I’ve spoken with the three I know that have done full surgery, full name changes, live their lives as women all agree with women about protected spaces and believe what is needed is a third space.

They have all said that they understand the fear of men and they actively campaign for a trans space, rather than full access to women’s spaces.

The most vocal about accessing women’s spaces tend to be (in their opinions) cross dressers. And that’s not remotely the same thing at all.

How does one live as a woman though?

Oh, I forgot about the 'group' part of the question.

Yes to this, too. A menopause related group on social media. Man joined, claiming he was a woman, and claimed that his non-menstruation and absence of menopause had been so difficult for him he wanted to vent in the group.

The group split into those who thought he shouldn't be in the group and those who felt sorry for him and wanted to keep him in the group and listen to his point of view.

Peculiar comment. How on earth would you have any idea what they would do when they left work? (Same goes for any man, or woman come to that).

I feel sorry for your mil. She's an 80 year old woman who's 'transphobic' whatever that means. Maybe at her age she just wants to be away from men? And younger people (and you) think it's funny to ignore her boundaries and wishes because you don't agree with her attitude? JFC, I despair.

No never and I have transpeople as friends.

But it doesn't affect all women, only the ones who are bothered by it. Which is all of MN, but not much of the real world

No one is ignoring her boundaries. No one is laughing “at” her. Dd and her friends are completely lovely to her and she to them. She just doesn’t know they’re trans. That’s all. And they put up with her ranting away about all kinds of things, she’s very extreme in her views (not just related to trans). We accept she’s elderly, she’s not going to change now. But it’s impossible not to see the irony in it all. That’s all. But as per usual I fully expect many people here will hate me for that. These threads always go the same way.

Never

Yes, I'm definitely bothered by the women's groups disbanding, the women who are quietly being pushed out of groups and spaces and services, and the ones being raped in prison.

This is not working for all women. Just not looking at it doesn't make it go away. And I feel a social responsibility to those women and their equality of access, I think shrugging and going 'well it's not my problem' and leaving them in that mess isn't really an acceptable thing to do.

Not quite the question you asked but I did belong to a mixed group (hobby) and a trans man would arrive as a man and change into his women's stuff in the loos, but he used the disabled one. Likewise he used that loo 'as a loo'.

Yes

Young lad wearing a wig, miniskirt and bikini top entered the female toilets to rearrange his outfit while DD and I were washing our hands. This in a place we were visiting.

At home, I come across a person most work days - sometimes he presents as male and sometimes as female. It's a uniform environment so think:

Female days: heels, tights, skirt, pretty blouse, fitted blazer, necklace, earrings, wig, make up

Male days: trousers, boots, sweatshirt, short hair, no make up

The second one doesn't affect me. With the first one both DD felt intimated and left as soon as we could.

My first experience was in the noughties. I was at the AGM of a women's org. A TW was there and was quite disruptive to the meeting, arguing, talking over women, dominating the discussions, just generally making the whole thing unpleasant. What I also found disturbing was rather than women challenging this, even quietly after they were all fawning over them.

I never went back.

Other times I've come across TW in mixed settings they have, every time, been attention seeking and bring up their trans status and push everyone into talking about it/ them. There's always a 'poor me, look at me' attitude and it has spoiled every such event I've been at.

I don't go to groups when I know TW will be present.

(I have no issue with mixed groups)

My friends ex was trans ftm. My work colleague is trans mtf. They are both very pleasant people.

The only negative experience I’ve with a man in a toilet was at a restaurant with ‘gender neutral’ toilets. Basically the place trying to be all woke but instead of proper mixed sex toilets. They’d just left the male and female toilets as they were and changed the signs on the door to both genders. The old male toilets had urinals and a cubical. The old women’s had cubicles and sinks.
I walked in on a man urinating in the sink 🤮
This is why I object to same sex toilets unless they are fully enclosed. I don’t want to see that

An awful lot of my friends have trans children. Autistic girls who now identify as boys. I have two extended family members who are trans- again FTM. One with a history of trauma, the other with autism. A friend's straight adult son is FTM.

I'm really worried about young women.

I saw a transman last time I was at the shops, spoke to another last time I was in the car park.

I have seen fewer transwomen. Though those I have seen have stuck out like a sore thumb- not spoken to one. They were walking quite aggressively, which caught my attention initially.

Honestly I'm surprised you haven't.

Yes to the toilet one. I live in a popular tourist town that's very diverse. A group of about 5 of them came in together, I can only assume "safety in numbers' type thing.

Of course "not every trans" is a sexual deviant, just as not every man is going to sexually assault you. The point is it's the system of allowing anyone with a penis in with women and girls that's open to abuse. No one is saying every single transwoman is going to attack them, only that we don't know who is "genuine" and who is a man taking his chances for sexual kicks. We've never known "the nice guys from the bad guys", it's why women through all of history has had to learn to be wary, just in case.

A male GP doing a smear would not bother me. Nor a male midwife.

Lucky you. A male doctor delivered dc1, triggered my pstd and was according to a consultant psychiatrist definitely a factor in me developing postpartum psychosis and effectively losing the first six months of dc1's life.

I've worked with several trans women, all of whom who seemed nice enough, I had a lot of empathy for one in particular but my ptsd read them by sex not gender. Another one had to be reminded to get dressed when I arrived though. Having done many many home visits to both males and females, regardless of identity all those who opened the door in underwear had one thing in common, the possession of a penis. Given they knew I was coming, it definitely felt problematic once it was clear it was a pattern.