Has a man dressed as a woman ever come into a communal changing room with you or joined a specifically female group you belong to ?

[Rilkescat]

How common is it ? Not really referring to stories in the media but for everyday women on MN. FWIW I've never met a trans person that I know of, neither professionally or socially. I'm a HCP so meet alot of members of the public. None of my kids have friends that are trans nor do my friends have children that are either.
Loads of trans threads at the moment. No problem with that but just wondered if it really is that prevalent ?
Before I get flamed I'm not in favour of biological womens' safe spaces being open to biological men but equally I don't think that all trans people, especially trans women are necessarily sexually deviant or mentally ill.

Well that's fine if you have a choice. My local swimming pool, gym and track all have communal changing rooms and showers. My daughter's school has communal changing rooms and showers. It is far easier to keep them all single sex rather than persuade everyone to spend thousands of pounds on remodelling them.

www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2023/01/24/trans-activists-giving-men-even-power-women/

Well if it is a business they have to consider how much money they are losing. I'm sure I'm not the only person who wants to change without an audience.

It's not a business. I'm talking about schools (famously rolling in money 🙄) and public buildings. The question is, seeing as the situation is as it is, do you think the majority of women should be expected to stay at home because some males (the minority) want to use female spaces? If so, why?

If it's a business, then yes - but other services like leisure centres and schools don't have the money or the inclination (can you imagine the drama from the TRAs who don't get to be women for the purposes of stripping off in front of us or watching us get changed) and so women are forced into situations where they feel uncomfortable or vulnerable, or they simply don't get to use the facilities.

And it's not just a question of safety but dignity. In one of the sports facilities with communal changing rooms there is a TW who uses the female facilities- not out of safety as they used the male facilities up until recently with no problem. Result: the girls no longer shower after training and miss out on all the camaraderie they used to enjoy. The boys still shower and change there. It is ALWAYS the women and girls that miss out.

I’m not sure what you mean by that - can you elaborate please?

Absolutely @SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth people like @BigHeartyTruffle infuriate the bejesus out of me. ONE just ONE bad actor whether trans or not has an impact on several people, what's up @BigHeartyTruffle are they just collateral damage? Because that is what you are pushing for, how fucking progressive.

Public buildings, like leisure centres, need an income or they close. Up to them but it isn't that difficult to erect cubicles. The situation as it is is that I don't use shops/venues if I need to strip in front of someone else, male or female.

Ok but back in the real world where that's probably not going to happen any time soon, do you think it's fair to make women and girls self-exclude in the meantime?

A very quick google search shows one supplier who's quoting £4611 plus vat for 5 cubicles, ex fitting. Not exactly cheap - and if they have already designed the changing rooms as communal or they are limited for space then very difficult to fit the required number in. In the meantime, women are either forced to share their space while men with penises look on or they have to give up using the facilities. The best thing of course would be to protect single sex spaces.

There is or used to be a trans 'woman' (male to female,) not sure of the correct terminology. Who works in my local marks and spencer, often in the fitting rooms. Didn't bother me, as fully enclosed cubicles, but can imagine it would upset some people.

My cousins 'daughter' is also trans. But has also come out as a lesbian. Since she sat looking at pictures of naked women on his phone, at his grandmothers wake. I would have a massive problem with 'her' in any female space. She's 15 or 16, so a horny teenager.

It's a business decision, I don't think fair comes into it. If women do what I do and boycott shops/venues without individual changing cubicles then businesses will make a business decision and install cubicles or close down. We have the power but if people won't use it then that is up to them.

Their business, their decision. If women refused to use communal changing rooms they'd soon disappear.

The best thing for you would be single sex spaces, the best thing for me would be getting rid of the communal changing rooms. We aren't all the same you see.

But in the meantime we keep them single sex, right? And no, actually girls can't boycott school in order to get cubicles built. That's not how it works. Could you actually be clear about what you're saying here? Is one male's feelings more important than how many girls' feelings? In other words, how many females equal the importance of one male in your opinion?

You’re not going to get rid of communal areas - so are you saying that we continue on giving those female single sex spaces over to men? You’re not being clear.

I don’t understand your point. These are all males harassing women. It’s all toxic masculinity.

I would like to see the answer to this as well.

There are already reports of girls who have been exposed to penises or have just felt uncomfortable with the presence of a student who was male last term and now is a girl watching them change (and I mean watching them. There was a thread about that scenario happening, I believe it might have been deleted).

Communal changing rooms are not going to disappear from schools. And I have not been in a gym that had enough space for them to do away with communal space either. I am sure they are out there, I just either cannot afford them or they must be in areas where they can dedicate more space than others.

You’re not going to get rid of communal areas - so are you saying that we continue on giving those female single sex spaces over to men? You’re not being clear.

It would seem so.

If we refused to used communal changing rooms businesses would get rid of them. I think that is quite clear, it is a business decision. I know when I was a teenager in the 60s there were far more communal changing rooms than I see in shops now, that's because women voted with their feet.

You think the issue is who comes into the communal changing room but others, like me, think the communal changing room is the issue.

My local leisure centre has cubicles, council facility. People choose to go to the private gyms which are more expensive and have communal changing areas. That's their choice.

Is one woman's feelings important? You insisting that single sex communal changing rooms are good enough is not going to make me feel comfortable, your solution means you feel OK, my solution means everyone can feel OK.

Yes - 2* in a women's only kickboxing group. This is at a martial arts centre with a variety of (mostly mixed sex) classes everyday of the week and there is ONE hour in ONE of the rooms reserved for women only. No-one was rude, but no-one really wanted to spar/box with them. Personally if I'd wanted to be hit in the face by a man (even gently) I would have gone to a session that was more convenient time wise for me but mixed sex. I think because no-one really wanted to mix with them they never came back.

In day to day life I have occasionally come across other Trans women so far and the interactions have been absolutely fine, normal they seem like good people. Its coming across a man in a space you thought was female only that's uncomfortable. In a pub etc its not an issue.

*But then you have to define "men dressed as women". They were men, but although they were dressed in a stereotypically girly way they weren't dressed like any woman who does a high impact sport dresses

Yours isn't a solution though. Lots of places including schools simply do not have the space or funds to adapt changing rooms. So again, while waiting for this mythical solution, should communal changing rooms stay single sex? If not, why are you prioritizing males over females?