Why some women don't identify with feminism

oh, sorry, missed your first post!

My point is that I am answering the OP, who asked why some women don't identify with feminism. And I was explaining my experiences with people who call themselves feminists and their reactions to me and how I don't want to be like that.

As to the things mentioned. I think you'll find many posts from me on the sexualisation of women. I rant long and loud about music videos being porn with a drum machine! I complain about the sex society and make flippant prophesies about future heinz beans adverts

And of course we should all fight against people who abuse other people - that is criminal behaviour!

and dittany - I'm not in the habit of telling lies! the very first attack upon me happened when I was just a teenager. I was a member of the SWP. I made the mistake of telling my friends (in the pub after a meeting) when we were talking about the future, that I saw myself married, with kids etc blah blah blah. I was then lectured at length. And that was not the only time.

OTOH, when I ran the business I was wrong then too.

And now I am a SAHM and the Question comes and again I am critisised.

And now here I am, feeling like I need to write a novel to explain and justify myself when all I did was write a post specifically about my personal experiences with people who call themselves feminists and judge my choices.

arrggghhh poor poor me.

Class needs to be acknowledged in this debate, it really does.

"Right to work" is being used as a catch all slogan for womens employment rights when it really only refers to the issues that middle class women faced - who are not in the majority. The use of this term belies the truly class-specific nature of much of what is being debated here.

Re: this "but all the men I know are OK so it's wrong to generalise" thing - even if all the men you personally know are wonderful, how about looking at all the women you know? How many of them have been raped, sexually abused, assaulted or harrassed? And who is doing this raping, abusing, assaulting and harrassing? Other women?

I bet merely pointing this out will get me called a man-hater, won't it?

On the "right to work" idea,I realise women in general have always worked - but you don't have to go back too far to find a situation where the expectation was that middle class women would not work,and if you did not marry the choice was caring for parents at home/good works/governessing.

Or the the situation where working women who married were expected to stop working.

Custado made the point that the suffragettes were primarily middle class. I don't see where she claimed that they delibreately set out to exclude working women.

I've also noticed that if one woman who calls herself feminist says something, anything, that other find objectionable, it's immediately considered to be indicative of all feminists.

Someone on this thread has already said 'apparently feminism is nothing to do with choices' meaning Dittany's thread about 'choice feminism' as if Dittany is the Grand High Poobah of Feminism (and also misinterpreting the thread, but whatever).

On Sakura's thread in this topic championing the role of SAHMs in feminism, and claiming that being a SAHM is an overtly feminist choice, do we get anyone from this thread saying 'oh, hey, a self-identified feminist is championing SAHMs (and getting a lot of backup). Guess I must be wrong about all feminists hating us, whoops". No. What happens is that Xenia comes along, says something that isn't even really about feminism but more about capitalism/economic libertarianism, and people immediately go 'oh, well, if that's feminism I want no part of it'.

Why is that? Why do people only read the posts they disagree with and call that justification for anti-feminism, where every single thread has huge debate on it and in any given thread about half the self-identified feminists probably agree with you?

Justmy, I've never come across anything like that - have you really had that experience? How many times? Not doubting you, just puzzled.

I am a feminist for the simple reason that I think men and women are equal. I have never criticised anyone for being an SAHM or whatever on feminist grounds - the whole point of feminism is the right to choose what we do.

dittany, although no one can deny that the suffragete movement intended to give women the vote, they made very little headway despite their highly publicised actions.

it was womens necessary work in ww1 that forged the way for the 1918 representation act - and only then did householders over 30 ( female) get the vote.

its a popular myth that the sufferage movement won women the vote.

however their actions were not all in vein, i would certainly agree that their pre-war actions - which abhorred society - did lead the polititions to wonder how far they would go after the war. and the country was tired, so wealthy women over 30 were given the vote as almost a concession, a thank you for services rendered.

thats my opinion anyway.

'"i believe in much more than gender equality, i believe in equality for all" Surely gender equality is equality for all? Unless there is a third gender?

Not really

because true equality is based on gender, race, sexuality, health, birth class, nationality, whether youa re disabled or a carer, or a parent......

gender is important but it is one part of a multi stranded battle, some areas of which are making more progress than others

I consider myself a feminsit (of teh choice variant) but have been criticised by women for fighting causes other than feminism. I see that as doing as much damage to teh overall equality dream as being anti feminist tbh

Granny 23 is right. The slogan, 'right to choose' was pre Roe v Wade where the rally cry was to have a safe abortion and the woman's right to choose between continuing with a pregnancy or being able to choose abortion.

no, I mean 'just' a wife and mother. Choosing to not do anything else as well. Clearly you can be a wife, a mother, a wife and mother, a wife and worker, a mother and worker, a wife, mother and worker...

I mean me = wife and mother only.

Except I'm not, cos I'm going to start my own business again (I ran a care agency up till 5 years ago)

But the point is, it's up to me if I want to be a wife and mother and nothing else too.

I have never in my whole life met a woman in a pub who wanted to have a conversation with me about feminism, mores the pity.

And I have spent a lot of time in pubs

Maybe I went to the wrong ones...

I'mSoNotTelling Why not say that then? "Right to work" sounds like an insult to the working women of my family, right to a break would've been nice sometimes....

But anyway, I get your point and I agree with you but the terminology is clumsy.

Actually, hang on, JustMyTwoPenceWorth, are you saying that being a wife and mother requires you to stay home?

Because I've chosen to be both of those things too, you know.