Why some women don't identify with feminism

Molesworth I'm trying to point out why some women are put off. My first reaction on reading it was 'so my lovely DH has to be tarred by the same brush as some fucking rapist just because of his gender? Well all rapists are human so...'

There are better ways to fight a cause and get people to understand than to demomise half the population

Of course not

But whilst all rapists are men not all men are rapists.

Rapists are men who commit crimes, there has imo to be a very clear distinction amde between the two

I do not for onr minute beleive the all men are potential rapists argument. NAsty, violent, mena re rapists. Abusive mena re rapists. Criminal men are rapists.

besides Ia ctually think that anything that says that all men have the capacity to rape or that rape is a generic male thing lets rapists off the hook: its not them its their gencder. No it isn't, it's them and they are adults and have the responsibility not to rape, there are no excuses

bronze, it's like saying that Martin Luther King et al were being racist for not taking sufficient account of the sufferings of white people.

So to fight sexism we have to be sexist?

And this is why some women don't identify with feminism!

Luckily for me I know there is more than just those opinions but I would be put off reading this thread.

"Men don't rape IMO becuase they are men, but becuase theya re rapists. "

So, what, it's just coincidence that almost all rapists are men?

No, I'm using SWP as my very first experience of being hammered for wanting a certain life.

And yes, total tossers. But I was young and stupid and they bought the beer

"also the vote and jumping in front of horses etc, was for middle class women , poor plebs still considered too thickto vote. "

I took that to mean that the suffragettes were middle class women and that they were fighting for the vote for themselves, and themsleves only.

I didn't know that before but then I am really shite at history.

pogleswood women in my family who had good careers were forced to stop working on marriage - it wasn't that long ago - my grandparents generation.

Justmy i think you desacribed me too: in my self obsessed youth I described myself as an equallist: sounds a bit up my owna rse now but tbh it describes pretty much what I am anti, which is unfounded bias

I'm not, and in fact have been raped and sexually assaulted by different men in the sapce of two eyars between 16 and 19. I have the most unfortuante kind of knowledge.

But when I look at men I don't see potential rapist; I see some rapists and some really good blokes and a lot in the middle.

And I didnt deny rape was gendered: I specifically mentioned rape with regards to men, and assault with regards to females.
Blame the criminal not the gender. Men don't rape IMO becuase they are men, but becuase theya re rapists.

is it possible to be a .. erm.. humanist {grin] equal rights and good treatment and freedom from fear and exploitation for all humans? Regardless of age, ethnicity, religion, disability, sexual orientation, gender....

cos I think that's what I am.

I see areas where women suffer, I see areas where men suffer, I see areas where people with disabilities suffer, I see areas where people suffer based on their ethnicity....

I don't think any one deserves my allegiance more than any other. So I wouldn't say I'm a feminist. I don't put womens rights above the rights of all I've mentioned.

Or perhaps I am really, truly, badly misunderstanding what feminism actually is. In which case, I am honestly open to being educated. (just not attacked!!!)

At the root of it, yes it is LG. However, life is complicated and the nitty-gritty of how to achieve that is going to vary massively depending on cultural background, finacial position etc.

Clarissimo, if we don't look at wider issues of the power structures in society and the groups they favour, how are we to ever effect any sort of societal change?

I mean, if you say 'crime comes from poverty' you can target poverty and the institutional reasons why poverty exists, to reduce crime, right?

Well, your husband might be lovely, but rape is a gendered crime. The way to tackle it is to look at wider societal reasons why men feel entitled to the use of female bodies. If you say 'well this rape happened to be by a man and this rape happened to be by a man and this rape happened to be by a man' how on earth can you ever fight rape?

But clarissimo, you're ignoring the fact that almost all perpetrators of rape, sexual abuse, assault and harrassment happen to be men.

I have a wonderful DP, brother and son. They're not rapists. But that doesn't blind me to the fact that rape is gendered. Frankly I think it's ridiculous to deny the fact.

Right, TwoPence, I've seen and agreed with those posts. But do you not think they're feminist issues, then? And I note that you're facing criticism for going back to work now. I mean, what other lobby group (for lack of a better term) is going to fight for them?

I understand that you're talking about your personal experience, but do you think it's possible that you've only noticed the bad experiences? I mean, hi, I'm a feminist and I'm here to tell you that your choices are fine by me. Does that change things? Are you a feminist now?

Yes they are LG - however claiming that one brand of feminism will suit all is unhelpful.

That is what is often happening on this board.

Well its true that soe men abuse and rape

but then some women abuse and assault as well and we don't want a world where all women are seen as abusers do we?

I know my Dh has never raped anyone (I got engaged to a virgin, I feel pretty sure therefore in that claim) and I don't see why he and people like him should be tarred with a gender wide negative brush

I don't see why my boys should start from a point of rpesumed guilt either

I am a firm beleiver in looking at indiduals fr culpability and blaming the offence, not the offeneders gender

And no loles I dotn think you are a manhater: just that you see it differnetly to me