I think I love David Mitchell. Look at this article he wrote on pole dancing in the Cambridge Union

Jeez there is some self righteousness going on on this thread.

I think most people would agree that most people do not understand why words such as spaz and mong are so offensive, and seeing as they are such mainstream words, they are seen as no more offensive than words like idiot.

I use the word "idiot" although I know I really shouldn't, tbh

Although 'mong' is not a word I have ever used (I think I am the wrong age) it wasn't until I used MN that I realised how offensive it is, this along side 'mental', 'moron' etc. The real ignorance is when it's pointed out but people still use these words.

Well done David Mitchell for pointing the obvious out.
Sometimes I think people get scared of pointing out the bleedin obvious.

policywonk, I do almost always agree with him too and as far as it is possible to say it of anybody you know only through popular media, I do like him. This of course colours my view. But I do take this view generally as well. Education does not start from the basis that everybody is woefully ignorant but from the point that everybody can learn.

Reasons to return to Norfolk...

1. To return Sheva (she breeds you know, or reproduces more accurately. Get rid before she multiplies)

1. To provide more bubble wands

1. To see meeeeeeeeee!

Next weekend's good for me.

V well put SoH. I don't think there's a contradiction between being believing in political correctness/courteous use of language, and being indulgent towards people who use terms without realising that they're giving offence. In fact, if PC is going to become an automatic part of day-to-day discourse, then I'd say that demonstrating some indulgence towards people who use terms without realising quite what they're doing it absolutely essential - otherwise none of us would get through a day without taking grave offence at something.

Interesting re. 'retard'. I remember a very good friend of mine turning up to work in a t-shirt bearing the legend 'Retard' some years ago. She's one of the nicest women I know, extremely clever and kind. Good people can make bad choices - it doesn't mean they should be condemned in entirety.

But yes, I think Mitchell is absolutely bang on politically - I pretty much never disagree with him about anything - so I'm sure that colours my view too.

Next time, next time. Reasons to return to sunny Norfolk.

Bloody Sheva has moved in here...

Hmm, just throwing another opinion on here. I used to work for a woman who has cerebral palsy. She has no learning difficulties - I was just her hands / legs and her voice (I used to 'translate' for her).
She didn't find the term 'spaz' offensive in any way - in fact she named her car the 'spaz-mobile'. She found nothing funnier than making a horrified , PC me say the word outloud because I had to say what she wanted me to! It was interesting to see that I had such a problem with the term but she didn't. Its not a term I like at all, but maybe it's about context?

I did like the wheelie bin article though.

ginny, you will see the error of your ways, you will, you will. You'll join me on the dark side soon. Should have slipped something in your earl grey and played repeats of him on QI into your sleeping ear.

knew you would be on here.

No convincing me of his attractiveness. Put a bag over his head and maybe. Maybe not.

And I have to say, a person who innocently uses a singular term without knowing its etymology or potential for offence is no worse than somebody who knowingly refers to somebody as a 'wet lefty' or a 'nomark hack'. You clearly mean to be offensive.

smallwhitecat, you've missed the point of what I'm arguing. You see you'd judge my husband for saying something at work that he had no idea that was offensive. Once pointed out to him, he never said it again. Would it have been better that I entirely changed my opinion of him? That a single word uttered from his lips was actually the signifier of his personality, morals and conduct as a whole and I was wrong not to be up in arms about it?

And you talk of 'behaviour' but what you're referring to is the utterance of one word without knowing the thought process behind it. How many times have I seen somebody on here not realise that a word is considered offensive until it is pointed out to them? Judging them for not knowing the etymology of a single word does not help further the cause of educating people about the use of SN-related terms as derogatory put-downs.

Hmmm.
Spaz was common parlance in the playgrounds of the 80's.
I'm sure we've all been here before, but personally I didn't know quite so many things were quite so offensive till I came to MN.

I do, however associate DM with the word now. Yay to a web chat where we can perv on talk to him.

Which episode of Mock the Week was it on?

I had an interesting conversation with my niece this weekend. She quite regularly, along with her friends, calls people "retards" or concepts "retarded". She is no stranger to being bullied for her own significant SN. She truly did not understand where the term came from and has resolved not to use it. Obviously, she's young and therefore it's very different but the word has slipped into her lexicon so easily.

DH's work similarly uses a term (though not retard) to describe any difficult job and I have heard his colleagues freely use it. When I pointed out what the term actually meant, they were universally horrified that they used it so openly.

Perhaps 'spazz' is one that we presume DM knows shouldn't be used for comedic gain but does he know how loaded it is as a term? Does he mean offence to a certain group of people? That I think I can safely presume he doesn't. I think often the crime is ignorance as opposed to cruelty.

A kneejerk reaction and labelling somebody a gobshite for the singular use of a certain word isn't endeavouring to inform or educate or change the way we use language, it's reductive and presumptuous.

I won't villify DM for the single use of a word. If I was sure he understood the offence he inadvertantly caused yet still persisted, I'd be right there with you.

Clearly, I'm wittering. But I think there lies a problem in language usage not being challenged more openly. Perhaps DM could write a column about it. Or get him on for a webchat. Then we could talk about the issue instead of villifying the individual.

'Spaz' isn't great, but I agree that 'everyone needs a little education'. I get very weary (because of my personal circs) of hearing people use 'schizophrenic' improperly, but I know that 20 years ago I might have been guilty of doing the same thing. Mitchell has proved himself (in my eyes at least) as someone who is generally thoughtful and courteous.

Agree AF.

although have to say that everyone needs a little education sometimes!

aww, can we not just let this article stand alone

and not go searching for all the other less-than-brilliant things he may/may not have said

eh ?

Bloody disappointing to hear that DM used the word 'spazz'

Unacceptable and ignorant. I'm surprised at him tbh

smallwhitecat - is the word 'bastard' intended to offend the parents of children born out of wedlock? or is it a generic insult? who decides?

i rather favour this view is that using the word per se is not disgraceful, but purposeflly insulting that group is.