asking for it?

Then what is the tip list for? Surely the tip list is in order to inform women what activities carry a risk of sexual assault. And if they choose to ignore the risks - well then...

Otherwise why are they telling me to avoid carrying my shopping home from the supermarket? What is the point?

People make their own judgements about risk. I said I would avoid it personally based entirely on what the papers report. I know it's not exactly the best source of information but it would colour my thought making process.

I did not say that people should avoid situations because the courts may not back them up if things go wrong. I suggested that the reasons why some high profile cases do not make it to court is because the cps decide there isn't enough evidence. Then afterwards the women may dedcide that they aren't getting any justice so figure they might aswell have the money.

So women should assume that the criminal justice system is failing (which of course it is) and make sure they avoid lots of situations, even if those situations don't statistically appear to be "risky", just in case?

Like walking down the road with heavy bags?

ImSoNotTelling yes that could be the case or the ladies in question have been told that there is a low chance of a sucessful conviction and have taken the money as compensation.

I wouldn't go just incase they were true. I wouldn't feel safe. Not that anyone is asking mind.

"* Try not to load yourself down with packages or bags as this can make you appear more vulnerable."

Really?

You're stuffed if you want to move house then. Or have a dinner party. Or buy a set of clothes for a job interview.

it's bloody ridiculous.

Why would people think twice about going to footballers rooms?

I can't think of a time that a footballer has been found guilty of rape, from any of the high profile cases.

The consensus has been generally that the sex was consensual and that the women have made a lot of money.

Surely this will make women keen to go back to footballers rooms, if they are not going to be raped and will make lots of money?

That is what the press reports.

Well, that's exactly what most victims of rape do in practice, DP. And rapists continue getting away with it.

Yes I know...but how would I ever prove it..? it would be my word against his, it just wouldn't be worth the hassle, I'd leave and put it down to experience.

daftpunk once someone says stop. They have to stop or it is a crime.

LG;

If I willingly started having sex with a man but decided halfway through I wanted to stop, I wouldn't report him for rape if he didn't stop...I would accept that I had "asked for it"....I wouldn't walk around certain areas of London waving £50 notes around...I know I'd stand a good chance of getting mugged...

ItsGraceAgain I entirely agree that it is bog standard advice. My point is that there are some situations where you make yourself more vulnerable to crime. Any type of crime. That advice can be directed at anyone whether they are man or woman. The advice was from a rape support charity which is why I posted it. I really don't feel that the subtext it 'if you don't follow this it's your own fault'

Obviously it is wrong to deny justice based on anything prejudice to do with the victim. Whether it be clothing, where the crime took place, people that the victim was with etc. I haven't suggested that it should and have already pointed out that sexual assault against women is singular in that the woman needs to prove herself worthy of being the victim in our system which is just plain wrong. I also did not say that girls going up to a footballers room deserve anything other than respect of their wishes. However, I think many people would think twice about it due to the number of high profile cases. That doesn't mean that the people who choose to go are at fault it just means that others would feel they might not be safe and would choose not to.

Rape is wrong and rapist are always to blame. I just think in some situations safety advice can work.

Me too, Grace, and it wasn't my fault. And what happened to you wasn't yours, either.

There are plenty on Mumsnet, Molesworth, they're just terrified of pissing Dittany off

Soapbox, that list you posted is bog-standard safety advice. It has nothing to do with women in particular, nor with sexual assault.

If you walk home, drunk, through an unfamiliar area at night, with your iPod plugged into your ears, you will be at (slightly) greater risk of being assaulted, robbed or harrassed. If you do suffer a crime, your clothing will not be counted as an invitation to your attacker ... unless [a] The crime was assault, not theft, and [b] You are a woman.

Wrt pretty girls being "spit roasted" by footballers and the like: when a woman agrees to go to a man's room for sex, she does not implicitly give permission to his friends to gang-rape her.

In fact, there is no such thing as implicit permission to assault ... despite what the media (and too many courts) seem to think.

I lost my virginity to a "date rape". I was naive, yes, but the man forced the sex and therefore he was wrong. Is naivety a crime now?

Heartening to see that there are so few here putting forward the 'she asked for it' argument. There was a government survey last year on rape attitudes (quoted by Kat Banyard) which showed that 43% of those surveyed think that a woman 'asked for it' if she had been flirting with the rapist beforehand. 42% think the woman 'asked for it' if she'd been using drugs at the time. 36% think the woman 'asked for it' if she had been drinking. 26% think the woman 'asked for it' if she was wearing sexy or revealing clothes. I wonder who all these dodgy-attituded people are?

Milly, I'm sorry if I misunderstood your comments re warning signs of dangerous men.
My comments re comments re the drunk mini skirted women were meant as an example of the common stereotype of a rape victim (in relation to the rape described in the op and my example) and weren't meant to imply anything about your posts.

If a woman gets drunk ( or even if she doesn't ) ...goes back to a mans flat, gets into bed with him, but then decides half way through she's not really in the mood.....I wouldn't blame the man if he didn't stop..

G40....99% of woman are hetrosexual because men are better in bed...lesbians have very boring sex lives..(offically...)

That's why we all put up with terrible men.......they're worth it..

It goes against our family values, certainly. Mind, I can see why people object: two women raising a girl who truly believes she can do anything she wants when she grows up and that everyone should be treated equally.