asking for it?

"Some situations are more dangerous than others"

So what are these situations that make rape more likely. Can you really not see that by blaming the "situation" you are absolving the rapist of responsibility?

Take these two scenarios:

1. Woman walking alone in dark alleyway, gets raped. Well, the situation was just too dodgy, what was she doing there alone? Did she not expect trouble? In short, blame is on the victim.

1. Woman on date who then rapes her. Well, what was she wearing? Did she flirt? Did she snog him? Did she lead him on? In short, blame on victim again.

The blame should be put on the rapist and the rapist alone. The situation has nowt to do with it!

once again soapbox, you are saying the victim is responsible for the rape becasue she didnt chose her friends wisely!

is there a jaw drpped emoticon anywhere......

But how do you tell which friends and nice and normal and which friends are rapists?

There isn't any way of telling, is there?

But soap, how do you tell? If you know, please tell us, because I'm keen that the same thing doesn't happen again.

I'd known this guy for years. He seemed like a nice guy. None of my other friends commented or stopped me from accepting his offer to walk me home. The girls in the group thought it was a really good idea.

soapbox wrote: Again degrees of risk. It depends who the friends are doesn't it.

WHAAAAAt????are you serious?

Was looking for the statistic about rape at american universities (it is rife - basically accepted as a normal behaviour by men and a fact of life by women) and found this article which is v good and discusses what we are discussing here.

The stat is that a conservative estimate is that 1 in 10 women will be raped while they are at university. That's just a few short years, not the lifetimes of these women. It's scary.

Again degrees of risk. It depends who the friends are doesn't it.

soap, surely you're more safe if you're on your own? If you're on your own, you're not with a man who could potentially rape you.

My mistake was that I allowed one of my friends to walk me home. I thought that made me more safe but sadly not.

Are you going to answer me or just chide me for my language?

In the specific context of rape, which is what we are talking about, what situations are more dangerous than others? I assume you know, since you've referred to them several times now.

Oh right so as it is an american charity they don't need to give advice to men like "don't have sex with people who are unconscious" as their laws may not see that as wrong.

What about it being morally wrong?

I mean, it was legal here a few years back for men to rape their wives. That didn't make it fine, and not worth mentioning, surely.

You're not safer in a group, if the group you're with is a group of men who suddenly turn on you.

Or when you say "safer in a group" does it have to be a mixed or female group?

It is an american charity. I think there was some debate there years ago that if someone didn't say no or was incapable was it legally rape under their laws at the time. Not 100% on that though.

Language.

It's about degrees of risk though isn't it. There is not a situation that anyone could say you won't get raped here as apposed to you will get raped there.

I'm not 100% safe in a group or 100% vulnerable alone but I'm not as safe alone. That holds true for mugging and general assult too. Lone people are more vulnerable.

Just been looking at the RAINN website and some of it is most odd.

There is a section called What can men do? which has me scratching my head as none of the things listed seem specific to men.

I particularly like this one:

If you see someone in danger of being assaulted:...
If you know the perpetrator, tell him or her that you do not approve of what s/he is doing. Ask him or her to leave the potential victim alone."

Ohhhhhhhhhhhh that's strong isn't it. Ask them to leave him/her alone.

Also like the way that at the top it says "Even so, it is important to remember that the vast majority of men are not rapists. " then goes on to say "s/he" throughout.

It also doesn't mention that men should not rape people, or should not have sex with people who are unconscious, or anything like that, anywhere.

"Why do people find it so hard to understand that not all situations are equally safe or not safe? I agree that women should not be kept in or curtailed but some situations are just more dangerous than others?"

Given that this conversation is about rape, your prevarication notwithstanding:

WHAT. FUCKING. SITUATIONS???

What if there was a campaign saying "gay men are quite likely to be assuaulted and beaten beacuse of their sexuality. We (leading gay charity) have released the following guidelines to try and minimise the risk of assault:

• Think about your clothing. Is there anything which might identify you as gay? If so, change it. If you really want to wear something that might identify you as gay, take it in a bag and put it on when you arrive at your destination. Don't forget to stow it again before you leave

• Think about your mannerisms. Are you quite "camp"? Men with certain mannerisms identified as being gay, are more likey to be attacked. Practice walking and speaking in a "straight" way

• If you are travelling to a known gay bar or club, make sure that you arrive and leave with a group of friends

• Only read gay publications at home. Never in public

• Remember that you are being observed all the time and any person you are in contact with could be a violent homophobe. Never let your guard down

etc etc etc etc."

Would this be considered sage advice? Or would there be an outcry?

I entirely agree that the information should be for everyone. I entirely agree that people should not be judged about their worthiness to be a victim based on what they were wearing. I have stated previously that I expect the men in my family to live by the same risk avoidance strategies I would use.

I think it is a good idea to tell people about sensible precautions - checking ID of people when they come to your door, not getting in a position where you are drunk and unconscious and lying in a gutter, if a situation makes you feel uncomfortable then leave it.

This advice should be given to everyone, as it is general advice which helps everyone, across a range of different crimes. It's common sense stuff really.

The current ideas propogated, which boil down to "WOMEN: BEHAVE DECENTLY OR YOU WILL BE RAPED" are unhepful, to say the least.

I have noticed in my area a tendancy for men wearing certain types of clothing to be picked on. I have not seen any calls for men to avoid wearing particular types of clothes to lower their risk of attack. Because it would be seen as intrusive and silly. If a man gets attacked because of what he is wearing, there is always outrage that the attackers could have behaved like that. When a woman gets attacked and is wearing certain clothes, everyone nods their heads sagely and says "well, then..."

ScreaminEagle I fear our voices may be lost in the eather. [head banging against a brick wall emoticon]

Why do people find it so hard to understand that not all situations are equally safe or not safe? I agree that women should not be kept in or curtailed but some situations are just more dangerous than others?

Anyone walking at night by themselves is more vulnerable. This has been true since the dawn of time for all creatures in creation (obviously except the nocturnal sort). I have not at any point said that if someone were do do this they would be raped and it would be their fault.