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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Horror of Katseye

28 replies

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 11:44

If you haven't come across Katseye and this post means you see one of their videos I apologise. The songs are ear worms the videos are sex shows.

They are young girls themselves that have been groomed into this industry. They are then, in turn, grooming vast numbers of children. It is a trail of bread crumbs to Only Fans and the like.

Their videos also present drug taking as sexy and cool and have trans content that is kind of an extension of all the dressing up as sex objects.

They are wildly commercial and have many partnerships with companies that sell children's products: TicTac, Mattel, Lush, Gap.

I'll stop now but I could write a book on all the wrongness of Katseye. My daughter's friend went to the concert in Dublin and was thinking that she would be surrounded by teenagers but found that actually there were loads of children in the 3Arena, some as young as six.

You can watch Hootie Fruttie or Pinky Up or Animal or Gnarly YouTube.

This is the music and dance that is forming the idea of what it means to be girl today.

OP posts:
sanluca · Yesterday 13:07

How do you get from Katseye to Only Fans?

I see them as indicative of girl pop groups, nothing unusual at first sight. The worst of Katseye is the vast amount of horrible online abuse they get. Two members are on leave due to this. So please don't make it worse for them.

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 14:12

"Trans content". Please get a grip.

PaisleyprintWallpapers · Yesterday 14:18

Drug taking as sexy and cool?? Wtf you on about there???

If your talking about the fan suggestions around pinky up... my dd (11) listens to this and thinks its about being posh!

AntoineRoquentin · Yesterday 14:53

I don't know about you, but I've still to recover from "the horror" of the pernicious influence of Elvis Presley's hip gyrations or the Beatles long hair on the vulnerable youth of the nation.

You can't beat a good old fashioned moral panic about youth culture.

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 14:54

sanluca · Yesterday 13:07

How do you get from Katseye to Only Fans?

I see them as indicative of girl pop groups, nothing unusual at first sight. The worst of Katseye is the vast amount of horrible online abuse they get. Two members are on leave due to this. So please don't make it worse for them.

Katseye to Only Fans: Girls learn how to pose, dance, hold their face in a very conformist way that is inspired by the pornography industry. The people around those girls who are imitating this standardised 'sexy' style then possibly start to see them differently. They are seen and treated sometimes as older than they are. They get the idea that this is a way to get validation and praise and be noticed. Looking/acting grown-up and alluring. Then, when they are a bit older they might start posting photos of themselves looking hot and sexy on Instagram and the like or doing sexy dances on TikTok. It's a fun thing to do with your friends. It is socially acceptable. By the time they get to eighteen the short hop over to Only Fans hardly seems like a big deal. Trail of crumbs.

Yes, Katseye videos are like many other videos. You are hard pushed to find girl singers who are not hypersexualised and pornified.

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 14:57

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 14:12

"Trans content". Please get a grip.

I am referring to 1 minute 13 seconds into the video for Pinky Up.

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 15:01

AntoineRoquentin · Yesterday 14:53

I don't know about you, but I've still to recover from "the horror" of the pernicious influence of Elvis Presley's hip gyrations or the Beatles long hair on the vulnerable youth of the nation.

You can't beat a good old fashioned moral panic about youth culture.

You can't beat a good old fashioned cliché as a way of shutting down discussion.

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 15:10

PaisleyprintWallpapers · Yesterday 14:18

Drug taking as sexy and cool?? Wtf you on about there???

If your talking about the fan suggestions around pinky up... my dd (11) listens to this and thinks its about being posh!

40 seconds into the video of Pinky Up
"I wanna get high before we're in the ground"
58 seconds into the video for Hootie Fruttie
She is putting a TicTac in her mouth in a way suggestive of 'taking a pill'

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 15:22

sanluca · Yesterday 13:07

How do you get from Katseye to Only Fans?

I see them as indicative of girl pop groups, nothing unusual at first sight. The worst of Katseye is the vast amount of horrible online abuse they get. Two members are on leave due to this. So please don't make it worse for them.

And I am most definitely not trying in any way to add to any awful comments directed to the girls in Katseye themselves. Geffen and Hybe Records have created this group and as I said have groomed the members of Katseye.

This product is sold to children of six, seven, eight, nine and ten. They are in BBC Tops of the Pops Magazine for 9 year olds. Who is defending that it is good for a seven year old girl to be learning these dance moves and expressions?

This band is marketed to children. That is the horror. That makes girls less safe in the world ... the culture is grooming children.

OP posts:
sanluca · Yesterday 15:22

I absolutely agree with you that many female singers are shown as in a hypersexualised way. I would love to see this stopped in general. But no, I don't blame Katseye specifically for this. I also think that parents need to parent their girls and explain how showbusiness work.

Now, don't get me started on influencers. I think they are much more harmful in portraying unrealistic lifestyles and leading to boys and girls both feeling they are not good enough for the world. I think every influencer needs to come with a banner saying they are just common advertisers.

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 15:30

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 14:57

I am referring to 1 minute 13 seconds into the video for Pinky Up.

So you object to some trans women featuring briefly in a music video? Heavens to betsy!

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 15:40

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 15:30

So you object to some trans women featuring briefly in a music video? Heavens to betsy!

Again, I object to this music/ these videos being marketed to children. I object to girls being sold these conformist ideas about what it means to be a woman or to impersonate a woman. This is how you become a girl or a woman: You dress like this and you act like that and make sure your face holds the continual expression of 'I am ready for your sexual advances'. It is all about the male gaze.

OP posts:
JahanaraBegum · Yesterday 15:42

People are accusing you of pearl-clutching but you are by no means the only person noticing this-- including much younger content creators who discuss it online.

I don't think there is much harm in talking about smoking weed if your audience is older teens and young adults. While I don't care for hypersexualised stuff, it is normal for the pop industry (another discussion to be had!). The issue is though that the actual fanbase is not older teens and young adults, it is kids. Hybe x Geffen know fine well that they have a kid fanbase and are still putting out that more mature content-- while putting in hooks for kids like KPop DemonHunter, Bratz, Slime etc.

I watched the documentary on Netflix about the formation of the group-- wildly talented and dedicated young people, great rolemodels in that sense.

The whole "child fanbase mature content" issue is not going unnoticed, and it is weird and dodgy. I personally think Katseye are age-inappropriate for 4-11 year olds due to the sexual dancing, videos and aesthetic. There is plenty of time for all of that when they are older imo.

But yeah, strange times, I do wonder what will happen to the girls involved. You couldn't pay me to be famous these days, it's brutal.

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 15:48

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 15:40

Again, I object to this music/ these videos being marketed to children. I object to girls being sold these conformist ideas about what it means to be a woman or to impersonate a woman. This is how you become a girl or a woman: You dress like this and you act like that and make sure your face holds the continual expression of 'I am ready for your sexual advances'. It is all about the male gaze.

You have far too much time on your hands.

Smallestshadow · Yesterday 16:26

Girl groups/female pop singers have always worn little clothing, had dodgy lyrics and had gyrating dance moves. Young women and girls being sexualised in pop has been going on for decades. It doesn’t make it right but I fail to see what’s so different/shocking about Katseye? Some stuff in the 90s was appalling (Britney Spears in a school uniform for example).

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 16:38

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 15:48

You have far too much time on your hands.

I have given this a lot of thought over the last two years as the girls in my daughter's class get sucked into the world of Katseye. They come into school on World Book Day dressed as Katseye, they stick stickers in the Katseye Sis Soft is Strong book, they teach each other the dances in the playground and the teachers put on the music for them to dance to. The girls in school who are liking, listening and watching Katseye are, as I've said, ages 6,7,8,9, 10 and 11.
This is not a subject that I have plucked out of the internet. It is the day-to-day world of children. I think it is reasonable to be upset about children being choreographed by a porn industry aesthetic. Studying how to be pornified.

Because I've put some time into this I am able to confidently have short conversations with my children about the things like advertising that we cannot stop them coming across. It has taken some time and effort to get to that point of being able to have easy short chats about this with them.

It is horrific that we are allowing this predatory industry (the porn industry) into children's lives through the culture. This is what is forming them.

And the children I worry the most about are those who are in households and life situations where they are vulnerable. Unfortunately there are many of those children.

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 16:42

Smallestshadow · Yesterday 16:26

Girl groups/female pop singers have always worn little clothing, had dodgy lyrics and had gyrating dance moves. Young women and girls being sexualised in pop has been going on for decades. It doesn’t make it right but I fail to see what’s so different/shocking about Katseye? Some stuff in the 90s was appalling (Britney Spears in a school uniform for example).

I think all the examples you have mentioned are bad for children. Sexualising children is bad. Katseye just happens to be the example of the moment.

OP posts:
alcovecupboards · Yesterday 16:47

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 16:38

I have given this a lot of thought over the last two years as the girls in my daughter's class get sucked into the world of Katseye. They come into school on World Book Day dressed as Katseye, they stick stickers in the Katseye Sis Soft is Strong book, they teach each other the dances in the playground and the teachers put on the music for them to dance to. The girls in school who are liking, listening and watching Katseye are, as I've said, ages 6,7,8,9, 10 and 11.
This is not a subject that I have plucked out of the internet. It is the day-to-day world of children. I think it is reasonable to be upset about children being choreographed by a porn industry aesthetic. Studying how to be pornified.

Because I've put some time into this I am able to confidently have short conversations with my children about the things like advertising that we cannot stop them coming across. It has taken some time and effort to get to that point of being able to have easy short chats about this with them.

It is horrific that we are allowing this predatory industry (the porn industry) into children's lives through the culture. This is what is forming them.

And the children I worry the most about are those who are in households and life situations where they are vulnerable. Unfortunately there are many of those children.

Five years ago the same allegations were being made about Little Mix. My daughter hasn't been launched headfirst into pornography because she loved them.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · Yesterday 16:56

I thought this might have been a thread about curry disasters.
As the saying goes "Regrets? I've had a few".
Sorry to make light of a serious subject for the OP.

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 17:07

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 16:47

Five years ago the same allegations were being made about Little Mix. My daughter hasn't been launched headfirst into pornography because she loved them.

I'm not saying that every child who comes across Katseye will end up on Only Fans but that it is presenting an idea of girlhood, womanhood that is a pollution of those things.

Many girls who were fans of Little Mix will now be on Only Fans because there are large numbers of girls on Only Fans. Lots of people think that is fine. I am not one of them.

I had a quick look at a Little Mix video. It has S&M garb and also bottoms out which has become very mainstream today. It is also mainstream for boys to expect anal sex from girls which is all from the porn industry. The porn industry also normalises violence: Jack Harlow's popular song, Lovin' on Me was a good example. "I'll choke you but I'm no killer baby". Strangulation which is common in porn is now in popular culture.

I think this is bad for children and young people.

OP posts:
FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 17:09

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · Yesterday 16:56

I thought this might have been a thread about curry disasters.
As the saying goes "Regrets? I've had a few".
Sorry to make light of a serious subject for the OP.

Edited

Love a Katsu Curry. Our last attempt was crispy delicious chicken but sadly the sauce was far too sweet.

OP posts:
alcovecupboards · Yesterday 17:10

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 17:07

I'm not saying that every child who comes across Katseye will end up on Only Fans but that it is presenting an idea of girlhood, womanhood that is a pollution of those things.

Many girls who were fans of Little Mix will now be on Only Fans because there are large numbers of girls on Only Fans. Lots of people think that is fine. I am not one of them.

I had a quick look at a Little Mix video. It has S&M garb and also bottoms out which has become very mainstream today. It is also mainstream for boys to expect anal sex from girls which is all from the porn industry. The porn industry also normalises violence: Jack Harlow's popular song, Lovin' on Me was a good example. "I'll choke you but I'm no killer baby". Strangulation which is common in porn is now in popular culture.

I think this is bad for children and young people.

"Many girls who were fans of Little Mix will now be on Only Fans because there are large numbers of girls on Only Fans."

But that's not what you're arguing. You're trying to argue a causal link. You've also made quite outrageous accusations about individuals grooming children.

blublub · Yesterday 17:23

Has anyone defending this actually watched one of their videos? Because I just did and I’m horrified that pre-teens are watching this! There are close ups of them suggestively touching their breasts whilst being leered at by a man. Water being splashed all over them and they look like they’re generally having a very sexual time! How you can compare this to Britney Spears is beyond me. I can only think you haven’t watched the videos.

FanOfGailDines · Yesterday 17:25

alcovecupboards · Yesterday 17:10

"Many girls who were fans of Little Mix will now be on Only Fans because there are large numbers of girls on Only Fans."

But that's not what you're arguing. You're trying to argue a causal link. You've also made quite outrageous accusations about individuals grooming children.

I'm talking about a form of 'cultural grooming'. Perhaps I should say that Katseye (the product) are teaching children how to objectify themselves.
This is the definition of objectification by the Australian Group, Collective Shout.

Sexual objectification occurs when a person (most often a woman) is treated as a body or series of body parts for others’ use and consumption, when her physical attributes and sexual capabilities are regarded as representative of her whole self or seen as determining her worth.
Objectifying representations of women include depictions of women without heads or faces, reduced to a single body part, portrayed as interchangeable, as a stand-in for an object or defined by their sexual availability.
When women are treated as sexual objects and their value is based on their physical attractiveness and sexuality to the exclusion of other characteristics, skills and attributes, this is harmful. It leads to sexual harassment, abuse, discrimination and men’s violence against women. It reinforces women’s status as second-class citizens, as existing for men’s sexual use and enjoyment, rather than fully human.
The harms of sexually objectifying portrayals of women are well established. A reviewof twenty years of research, from 109 publications containing 135 studies found:
“consistent evidence that…everyday exposure to this content is directly associated with a range of consequences, including higher levels of body dissatisfaction, greater self-objectification, greater support of sexist beliefs and of adversarial sexual beliefs, and greater tolerance of sexual violence toward women…exposure to this content leads both women and men to have a diminished view of women’s competence, morality, and humanity.” We have long argued the objectification of women should be regarded as a discriminatory practice, a form of sexual harassment threatening the health, well-being and status of women and girls.

OP posts:
Gollumm · Yesterday 18:49

Your problem shouldn’t be with Katseye. Your problem is with the parents of these kids who are so lacking in parenting skills that they allow their children to consume content that is too old for them. That’s not the band’s fault. That’s a parenting issue.

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