Views on androgen insensitivity and women’s sport participation

We have been having these exact discussions for years. Perhaps you should start reading the FWR threads covering sports so that you get the breadth of the issues and the wealth of information and links that are in the many threads here. Including what the current screening process is and the history of the tests.

Fair enough I used “male pelvis” as a way of emphasising they are male in the first paragraph but I qualified that in the second paragraph to point out the organs are different.

25% of women would share the pelvic bone shape of a male, but how many women share the pelvic floor musculature and organ distribution with males? Zero.

So having a hysterectomy in no way makes a female athlete match a CAIS athlete, even if their bones are that 1 in 4 the same, because the rest is different, on account of one being male and one being female.

This is my concern.

I can't find any record of actual measurable, testable things which is allowing Lin Yu-ting to continue to batter women in a boxing ring.

Women's boxing should be for women, not for men who failed to develop properly as men.

If up to 25% of women have an android - somewhat narrower - pelvis, then that is fairly normal for women. Their internal organs are those of women. It doesn’t make them men.

I have an android pelvis, and it made me a good sprinter. Unfortunately my heavy, painful periods forced me to give up sport in my mid teens, my potential unfulfilled.

Because up to 25% of women share his pelvis shape so using pelvis shape to exclude him from women's sport would be ridiculous.

You didn't use the word floor in the comment I responded to, you mentioned only his "male pelvis".

My comment was about the organs and musculature, not the bones. It’s really not complicated. Having a hysterectomy doesn’t make anyone the same as a CAIS athlete.

Why? CAIS athletes are male. By definition they have a male pelvic floor. They have no internal female organs - uterus/ovaries - and my comment holds true that a female who has had a hysterectomy has a completely different pelvic floor to a male.

Can we stop with the male pelvis comments please?

Up to 1 in 4 women have what's known as an android pelvis in common with men. Especially tall ones.

and that judgment can be swayed by ideology, money, political pressure etc.

Sharron Davies 'Unfair play' is clear how much corruption exists in the politics of sport.

Which test are you referring to?

The SRY gene test doesn't give any information about the level of testosterone sensitivity. Im not sure there is a definitive test to determine CAIS vs PAIS

For CAIS over PAIS ? No I don't believe it is. The issue is that hormones are present but there is a failure to react to them. The difference between partial and complete is a matter of judgment.

No you wouldn’t. Because the potential criteria would be anyone who has CAIS - who is anatomically male with a male pelvis and no uterus and therefore doesn’t have to make medical decisions about periods - is excluded.

If you theoretically decided to have a hysterectomy to have no periods, you have done something a CAIS athlete never has to think about. So you’re not the same.

And a post-hysterectomy pelvic floor is not the same as a male pelvic floor.

I have a problem with CAIS people into women's sport because it's a matter of judgment how complete the insensitivity is and whether it has given any male advantage,

And as soon as you introduce human judgment into it there can be mistakes and even corruption.

And I provide in defence of that argument the two Gold winning DSD boxers from the last Olympics. Iman Khalif has been excluded from women's sport as PAIS. Lin Yu-ting can box on as CAIS because somebody somewhere, in spite of his appearance and boxing dominance over women, has decided his insensitivity is complete.

Female inclusion in sport should mean female, not "incomplete development as a man".

Errr...

The screening process does cover this.

The initial screen for the SRY gene is just the start. It is not the only testing done if the SRY gene is detected.

because I opt for an elective total hysterectomy?

The fact you have to decide to undertake major surgery to match them shows that CAIS athletes have an advantage over you.