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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Views on androgen insensitivity and women’s sport participation

241 replies

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 06:41

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOugAoGDbo6/?hl=en

It's about androgen insensitivity.

Okay, so I come across this person on my reels during the night. Probably due to discussions here and the algorithm and Big Brother.

I also tried to do a search here but nothing come up about previous discussions. Might be the imperfect search functions.

Now unusually for me, I will give my actual position on what I'm about to say and ask.

I don't think trans women should compete with women in the majority of single sex sports events past a childhood grassroots level. Where it really doesn't matter, we should probably have those sports be mixed at a professional level to increase participation but that's another subject entirely.

When it comes to DSDs and the like, I think things like normal or average hormonal levels need to play a part in determining their participation. The athletes most discussed in here, I agree (somewhat reluctantly) they shouldn't compete with women. Reluctantly just because I think they are good athletes/people and haven't acted maliciously.

The person in the clip I have shown above, however, I don't think they are quite the same. I wouldn't begrudge them a space on a women's sports team, though from the sounds of it, they might not be very good, anyway.

I'm actually not sure if this is the clip of them I've watched as I watched them on Facebook. They talk about several of their aunts having the same disorder so they had some idea they would vs most people who have it not knowing until they get older.

So I guess I'm asking for people's opinions on this person and disorder when it comes to single sex spaces and sports.

Jackie Blankenship • Intersex 101 on Instagram: "✨ Born with XY chromosomes, but my body never listened to testosterone. My testes became my natural estrogen factory - Here is the scientific way it all worked! 💛💜 #IntersexProud #Intersex #CAIS #Inte...

4,999 likes, 206 comments - mrsjackieblanks on September 17, 2025: "✨ Born with XY chromosomes, but my body never listened to testosterone. My testes became my natural estrogen factory - Here is the scientific way it all worked! 💛💜 #IntersexProud #I...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOugAoGDbo6?hl=en

OP posts:
Imdunfer · 25/09/2026 09:03

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:45

There are very few sports where sex differences have no real impact.

Girls and women's access to single sex sports should not be relative to how much some men want to play with them.

Edited

I did a bit of digging on this one a few years back. Even shooting is separated because male muscles are better at holding the gun steady over long periods of time in a competition.

The only sports I know of where men and women compete as equals are the ones where most of the muscle power is provided by a horse and ultra long distance competitions where fat stores, slow twitch muscle and pain resistance are of an advantage to women.

Apparently the male advantage seen in marathons of 26 and a bit miles disappear almost completely at the 100 mile race length point.

It's perhaps still worth noting though that in spite of the fact that the vast majority of show jumping and event riders below FEI elite level are female, men are hugely over represented on the medal podiums. There are mental as well as physical things going on in sport.

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 09:02

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:59

Did you read the OP?

Just looked at the instagram clip, and I have to say that person seems to be heavily 'performing gender'. Is that a compensatory activity do you think?

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:59

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:59

So which athletes are you referring to; or are you simply wanting to have a theoretical discussion?

Edited

Did you read the OP?

OP posts:
Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:59

backformoreofthesame · 25/09/2026 08:56

That is the key issue for me too

and also where that sporting performance sits in the male and female distributions

I don't think height is a direct advantage in all sport. It's just one way you can be athletic. Some of my tallest female friends always hated the assumption they'd be excellent at sport because they weren't especially coordinated.

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:59

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:57

They don't have CAIS

So which athletes are you referring to; or are you simply wanting to have a theoretical discussion?

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:58

backformoreofthesame · 25/09/2026 08:56

That is the key issue for me too

and also where that sporting performance sits in the male and female distributions

The key issues for me are the protection of female integrity and fairness,

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:57

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:52

Yes, people like Caster Semenya and Imane Khelif still went through male puberty - and even without a sex test or scientific evidence you can see that with your own eyes.

They don't have CAIS

OP posts:
Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:57

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:50

People like Caster Semenya have a type of DSD that only occurs in people of the male sex - regardless of what was recorded on their birth certificates due to lack of awareness of the condition. Sex is the determining factor.

Edited

Caster Semenya doesnt hsve CAIS like the person in the clip in the OP.

OP posts:
backformoreofthesame · 25/09/2026 08:56

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:50

Has that been proven?

That is the key issue for me too

and also where that sporting performance sits in the male and female distributions

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:55

BackToLurk · 25/09/2026 08:50

If the separation between men and women exists, then it should be adhered to. If people want to make the argument that the separation is unnecessary, then that is a separate issue.

It is a difference that exists - a difference which has many implications, impacts and effects.

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:52

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:50

Has that been proven?

Yes, people like Caster Semenya and Imane Khelif still went through male puberty - and even without a sex test or scientific evidence you can see that with your own eyes.

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:50

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:48

So do you see people with CAIS as men?

People like Caster Semenya have a type of DSD that only occurs in people of the male sex - regardless of what was recorded on their birth certificates due to lack of awareness of the condition. Sex is the determining factor.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:50

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:49

No, we should be testing for sex. Even those of the male sex with androgen insensitivity have many physical advantages over females once past puberty.

Has that been proven?

OP posts:
BackToLurk · 25/09/2026 08:50

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:45

There are very few sports where sex differences have no real impact.

Girls and women's access to single sex sports should not be relative to how much some men want to play with them.

Edited

If the separation between men and women exists, then it should be adhered to. If people want to make the argument that the separation is unnecessary, then that is a separate issue.

Imdunfer · 25/09/2026 08:50

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:48

So do you see people with CAIS as men?

Of course they are men they have the SRY gene. That is the definition of being male.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:49

hethor · 25/09/2026 08:43

The athletes most discussed in here, I agree (somewhat reluctantly) they shouldn't compete with women. Reluctantly just because I think they are good athletes

They are mediocre male athletes. If competing against men, Caster Semenya's best-ever result would only just be good enough to place in a small local championship, and would be nowhere nationally let alone internationally

I like them as people. But this thread isn't about them because they don't have CAIS.

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:49

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:55

I searched CAIS and found threads from here on it.

So really, we should test sensitivity to androgen vs chromosomes in the women's categories, it seems like.

No, we should be testing for sex. Even those of the male sex with androgen insensitivity have many physical advantages over females once past puberty.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:48

Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:45

There are very few sports where sex differences have no real impact.

Girls and women's access to single sex sports should not be relative to how much some men want to play with them.

Edited

So do you see people with CAIS as men?

OP posts:
Shortshriftandlethal · 25/09/2026 08:45

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 06:41

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOugAoGDbo6/?hl=en

It's about androgen insensitivity.

Okay, so I come across this person on my reels during the night. Probably due to discussions here and the algorithm and Big Brother.

I also tried to do a search here but nothing come up about previous discussions. Might be the imperfect search functions.

Now unusually for me, I will give my actual position on what I'm about to say and ask.

I don't think trans women should compete with women in the majority of single sex sports events past a childhood grassroots level. Where it really doesn't matter, we should probably have those sports be mixed at a professional level to increase participation but that's another subject entirely.

When it comes to DSDs and the like, I think things like normal or average hormonal levels need to play a part in determining their participation. The athletes most discussed in here, I agree (somewhat reluctantly) they shouldn't compete with women. Reluctantly just because I think they are good athletes/people and haven't acted maliciously.

The person in the clip I have shown above, however, I don't think they are quite the same. I wouldn't begrudge them a space on a women's sports team, though from the sounds of it, they might not be very good, anyway.

I'm actually not sure if this is the clip of them I've watched as I watched them on Facebook. They talk about several of their aunts having the same disorder so they had some idea they would vs most people who have it not knowing until they get older.

So I guess I'm asking for people's opinions on this person and disorder when it comes to single sex spaces and sports.

There are very few sports where sex differences have no real impact.

Girls and women's access to single sex sports should not be relative to how much some men want to play with them.

hethor · 25/09/2026 08:43

The athletes most discussed in here, I agree (somewhat reluctantly) they shouldn't compete with women. Reluctantly just because I think they are good athletes

They are mediocre male athletes. If competing against men, Caster Semenya's best-ever result would only just be good enough to place in a small local championship, and would be nowhere nationally let alone internationally

Imdunfer · 25/09/2026 08:42

NotBadConsidering · 25/09/2026 08:33

And no, there is no accurate test between CAIS and PAIS. Given Ting looks male, which is how he came to attention in the first place, it’s quite obviously corruption that has led to a claim of CAIS.

I'm prepared to accept that it's not but the fact there is any possibility at all that it could be should bar all athletes with male genetics from female sport, imo.

Imdunfer · 25/09/2026 08:38

NotBadConsidering · 25/09/2026 08:31

Fair enough I used “male pelvis” as a way of emphasising they are male in the first paragraph but I qualified that in the second paragraph to point out the organs are different.

25% of women would share the pelvic bone shape of a male, but how many women share the pelvic floor musculature and organ distribution with males? Zero.

So having a hysterectomy in no way makes a female athlete match a CAIS athlete, even if their bones are that 1 in 4 the same, because the rest is different, on account of one being male and one being female.

Which is all correct but nothing to do with anything I've written so I have no idea why you are quoting me and arguing with me about it.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:34

Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 08:31

We have been having these exact discussions for years. Perhaps you should start reading the FWR threads covering sports so that you get the breadth of the issues and the wealth of information and links that are in the many threads here. Including what the current screening process is and the history of the tests.

I am reading them between my replies here.

OP posts:
Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:33

Imdunfer · 25/09/2026 08:29

This is my concern.

I can't find any record of actual measurable, testable things which is allowing Lin Yu-ting to continue to batter women in a boxing ring.

Women's boxing should be for women, not for men who failed to develop properly as men.

Well this is where I think AIS should just be the things that says one way or the other. Not appearance. If Yu-ting is essentially the same as the woman I posted above, despite their differences in appearance, then I support them competing.

I didn't think that was the case purely based on appearance. But if tests confirm otherwise, then, that's ok.

OP posts:
NotBadConsidering · 25/09/2026 08:33

And no, there is no accurate test between CAIS and PAIS. Given Ting looks male, which is how he came to attention in the first place, it’s quite obviously corruption that has led to a claim of CAIS.