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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Views on androgen insensitivity and women’s sport participation

241 replies

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 06:41

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOugAoGDbo6/?hl=en

It's about androgen insensitivity.

Okay, so I come across this person on my reels during the night. Probably due to discussions here and the algorithm and Big Brother.

I also tried to do a search here but nothing come up about previous discussions. Might be the imperfect search functions.

Now unusually for me, I will give my actual position on what I'm about to say and ask.

I don't think trans women should compete with women in the majority of single sex sports events past a childhood grassroots level. Where it really doesn't matter, we should probably have those sports be mixed at a professional level to increase participation but that's another subject entirely.

When it comes to DSDs and the like, I think things like normal or average hormonal levels need to play a part in determining their participation. The athletes most discussed in here, I agree (somewhat reluctantly) they shouldn't compete with women. Reluctantly just because I think they are good athletes/people and haven't acted maliciously.

The person in the clip I have shown above, however, I don't think they are quite the same. I wouldn't begrudge them a space on a women's sports team, though from the sounds of it, they might not be very good, anyway.

I'm actually not sure if this is the clip of them I've watched as I watched them on Facebook. They talk about several of their aunts having the same disorder so they had some idea they would vs most people who have it not knowing until they get older.

So I guess I'm asking for people's opinions on this person and disorder when it comes to single sex spaces and sports.

Jackie Blankenship • Intersex 101 on Instagram: "✨ Born with XY chromosomes, but my body never listened to testosterone. My testes became my natural estrogen factory - Here is the scientific way it all worked! 💛💜 #IntersexProud #Intersex #CAIS #Inte...

4,999 likes, 206 comments - mrsjackieblanks on September 17, 2025: "✨ Born with XY chromosomes, but my body never listened to testosterone. My testes became my natural estrogen factory - Here is the scientific way it all worked! 💛💜 #IntersexProud #I...

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOugAoGDbo6?hl=en

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 25/09/2026 08:07

No. It wouldn't. It is best we keep it simple, cheap and non invasive.

You should not test for the tiny minority, you test for the majority. There is provision for that tiny minority, but they do not come first.

All the rest of your talk about periods, height is flim flam, designed to distract from the main issue.

Which is biological sex.

spannasaurus · 25/09/2026 08:07

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:05

I think it would be better to do more conclusive tests on everyone, at least at first.

Why? SRY screening is relatively cheap. If there is no SRY gene present the person is female so no further tests are required.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 08:05

user1471538275 · 25/09/2026 08:02

First we test for the SRY gene - cheek swab, identifies sex.

Then if this come up as unusual, further testing will be undertake to establish other relevant issues.

Most importantly we start with biological sex.

I think it would be better to do more conclusive tests on everyone, at least at first.

OP posts:
user1471538275 · 25/09/2026 08:02

First we test for the SRY gene - cheek swab, identifies sex.

Then if this come up as unusual, further testing will be undertake to establish other relevant issues.

Most importantly we start with biological sex.

spannasaurus · 25/09/2026 08:01

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:55

I searched CAIS and found threads from here on it.

So really, we should test sensitivity to androgen vs chromosomes in the women's categories, it seems like.

That's what will happen with the sex screening tests that are being reintroduced. First stage is test for presence of SRY gene and then further tests if the gene is present.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:59

Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 07:38

I think that in the future that considerations such as whether an athlete's body has the ability to go through menstrual cycles will have to be taken into account.

There is also the potential issue that has been suggested in the past, that athletes with CAIS, as a group, have a height advantage. We might have already had decisions on this if attention had not been diverted to the male athletes with masculinising DSDs and those male athletes with transgender identities.

I'd have to know that they are taller than a global average of women, not just white American women or something like that.

Also, I don't think menstrual cycle is relevant. Let's say I'm a really dedicated athlete who never wants kids and hates how my periods interrupt my training schedule. Should I not be allowed to compete with female athletes because I opt for an elective total hysterectomy?

What about if I am a person who naturally has infrequent, short, light periods? Should my opponents get a headstart on that basis?

OP posts:
Theeyeballsinthesky · 25/09/2026 07:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:55

I searched CAIS and found threads from here on it.

So really, we should test sensitivity to androgen vs chromosomes in the women's categories, it seems like.

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 07:41

If anyone has not read the links on this thread linked below, they might find them useful. Please do not add posts to the thread unless they are bringing evidence such as studies, expert opinion, statistics to the thread. Please do start a new discussion thread (or this one that OP has just started if relevant) to discuss any posts that you wish to discuss.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 07:38

Luckydog7 · 25/09/2026 07:29

Just because they have had no effect or the same testosterone effect as biological women, doesn't mean they have had no advantage from being male. A big one I can think of is the menstruation cycle. They don't have one. They don't have to juggle those hormones and the effect on performance, the time away from sport due to bleeding and pain, pregnancy, child care etc etc.

As we saw in the pool case It isn't just about physical advantage it's about overarching differences between the sexes and the advantages/disadvantages the two sexes have in life/lifestyle.

I think that in the future that considerations such as whether an athlete's body has the ability to go through menstrual cycles will have to be taken into account.

There is also the potential issue that has been suggested in the past, that athletes with CAIS, as a group, have a height advantage. We might have already had decisions on this if attention had not been diverted to the male athletes with masculinising DSDs and those male athletes with transgender identities.

Luckydog7 · 25/09/2026 07:29

Just because they have had no effect or the same testosterone effect as biological women, doesn't mean they have had no advantage from being male. A big one I can think of is the menstruation cycle. They don't have one. They don't have to juggle those hormones and the effect on performance, the time away from sport due to bleeding and pain, pregnancy, child care etc etc.

As we saw in the pool case It isn't just about physical advantage it's about overarching differences between the sexes and the advantages/disadvantages the two sexes have in life/lifestyle.

SethAndReubenTooSendGaloshes · 25/09/2026 07:23

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:19

Ah I wasn't searching that term. What does the C stand for?

Complete androgen insensitivity syndrome as compared to partial androgen insensitivity syndrome (PAIS)

WarriorN · 25/09/2026 07:21

It’s still important to be honest and open about the fact they’re a biological male. This is important for their own health too.

From the little I understand though, the condition affects a lot. Women supposedly have more testosterone than oestrogen. This person won’t have any of that which may affect sports ability.

It may come down to the level of sports participation. If playing in a sport at a level that’s friendly etc it’s perhaps not an issue? (I don’t know the answer to that.)

But it is as you climb the levels. As you’re potentially taking a space away from a biological female athlete.

Lexibletheflexible · 25/09/2026 07:19

Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 07:15

Athletes with CAIS are included in the female sports categories under the IOC regulations and other sporting federations.

The athletes excluded from female sports are those athletes with testes that produce testosterone and bodies that are able to process that testosterone to any degree to masculinise. For instance, athletes with partial androgen insensitivity are excluded.

There may come a time in the future when those athletes with CAIS are excluded. There have been studies that show they have been over represented in the female categories of sports at the Olympics in the past. I am sure there will be future studies along those lines and decisions will need to be made.

CAIS has been discussed on FWR for years.

Ah I wasn't searching that term. What does the C stand for?

OP posts:
Helleofabore · 25/09/2026 07:15

Athletes with CAIS are included in the female sports categories under the IOC regulations and other sporting federations.

The athletes excluded from female sports are those athletes with testes that produce testosterone and bodies that are able to process that testosterone to any degree to masculinise. For instance, athletes with partial androgen insensitivity are excluded.

There may come a time in the future when those athletes with CAIS are excluded. There have been studies that show they have been over represented in the female categories of sports at the Olympics in the past. I am sure there will be future studies along those lines and decisions will need to be made.

CAIS has been discussed on FWR for years.

OP posts: