Views on androgen insensitivity and women’s sport participation

I think the term is that they butt hurt no one will believe them.

I see the trolls are still going... they can't just let it go that males cannot be women.

In 2004, his argument was that CAIS people develop entirely as a female.

But they don't . They have testes which no-one without a Y chromosome has. They produce testosterone at levels that no female produces. Whether they can use it or not doesn't alter that fact that no female produces testosterone in that quantity.

Male and female people do not have the same brains, male and female babies of 4 hours old behave differently. There is no current research into whether those differences are entirely related to androgen sensitivity.

Then, given that we are discussing these people being in women's sport, let's come to the crux of the matter.

The distinction between Complete and Partial AIS is a judgment call, there is no definition.

And as soon as you introduce judgement, you open the door to mistakes and worse to corruption.

And if Lin Yu-ting is a woman at 5 ft 9 when the average height for a Taiwanese woman of his age is 5ft 2, I'll eat my hat.

So why do the NHS class them as male?

‘Medical experts’ awarded a Nobel
prize for lobotomy.

I quoted the NHS page that says people with CAIS are female.

I've stated what Prof Robert Winston has said is the way to determine sex - which would class CAIS as female.

They haven't though. They have determined that those with CAIS are males who failed to develop external male characteristics and closely resemble a female. It's not the same thing.

Why do you think you know more than medical experts when it comes to determining the sex of people with DSDs

Once again you seem to be defining women as men who lack something. That is misogyny.

No, because they lack the ability to utilise testosterone and because medical experts have determined that those with CAIS are female

Found it....

Terry Pratchett, Thief of Time.

IT IS ONE OF MY FUNCTIONS. I HAVE TO OBEY THE RULES.

‘Why? They’re breaking the rules!’

BENDING THEM. THEY HAVE FOUND A LOOPHOLE. I DO NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF IMAGINATION

It was like Jason and the Battle for the Stationery Cupboard, Susan told herself. You soon learned that ‘No one is to open the door of the Stationery Cupboard’ was a prohibition that a seven-year-old simply would not understand. You had to think, and rephrase it in more immediate terms, like, ‘No one, Jason, no matter what, no, not even if they thought they heard someone shouting for help, no one – are you paying attention, Jason? – is to open the door of the Stationery Cupboard, or accidentally fall on the door handle so that it opens, or threaten to steal Richenda’s teddy bear unless she opens the door of the Stationery Cupboard, or be standing nearby when a mysterious wind comes out of nowhere and blows the door open all by itself, honestly, it really did, or in any way open, cause to open, ask anyone else to open, jump up and down on the loose floorboard to open or in any other way seek to obtain entry to the Stationery Cupboard, Jason!’

Because they don’t have a penis?

No, I don't believe people with CAIS are male

So you’re ok with males in female sports. Gotcha. Why do you believe women are not allowed sports and spaces free from men?

And some people think a man magically becomes a woman when he puts on a dress.

Define for me what your womanhood is then without reference to any gender stereotypes.

You don't fool anyone with a brain.

You know full well is about trans issues and the trans lobby using people with DSD to prise open doors to defining femininity to include men who think they are women.

The thread has demonstrated in several places that there is not necessarily a consensus about whether these people are men. As I said, it sounds reasonable, but it would need more research, and there would need to be more general agreement about whether competitors are men or women. It’s not going to happen tomorrow, if it happens at all.

A quicker and easier solution would be a Female category, that excludes anyone with a DSD, and an Open category, for everyone else.

Again though, as raised previously, the question is why so much energy is being devoted to a very few edge cases. We know why, which is that they are useful for gender ideologues who want to muddy the waters around sex classifications to allow transwomen access to female spaces, services and sports.

How many places should these men be allowed to steal from women before you decide it isn’t acceptable?

I think this sounds like a reasonable accommodation regarding sport as long, as you say, it is closely monitored.

Again, why should I accept your definition over that of Prof Robert Winston. Are you an expert in human sex and reproduction?

In sports it's not clear whether CAIS provides an advantage as the studies did not properly distinguish between CAIS and PAIS.

If CAIS is shown to give an advantage in the female category then I would be happy for CAIS athletes to be barred from the female category for sports.

Sex is about the production of gametes not body type. Where there are errors in development that prevent gametes then it is the gametes the body type is organised to produced. CAIS = testes = male.

Saying ‘but their external genitalia looks female’ is just and extension of saying women are simply men without a penis or that all embryos start as female because they don’t have a penis. Or that chopping off your penis makes you a woman.

But it is a section on male VSD. Mind you, the NHS also believes a male can be a woman so….

Complete insensitivity to androgens makes a person with XY chromosomes female

This is what i originally quoted

Um… that’s literally the heading from the link you just quoted….