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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

"transsexuals are patriarchal intruders into womanhood who reinforce traditional gender roles"

40 replies

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2026 18:54

Came across this by chance and thought as it shows a very different perspective from the trans activism of today, others might to interested.

... At first, in the early 1980s, Webb’s activism was largely in line with ‘mainstream’ trans advocacy groups like SHAFT and the Beaumont Society. She argued in 1982that the ‘restrictions on alterations to birth certificates provided one of the biggest problems for those changing sex’, stopping them from blending back into society, so she hoped for a legal solution to remedy this problem. However, when she moved to London and started attending radical feminist meetings, she found that most women in these spaces refused to see her as anything but a man masquerading as a woman. She ultimately accepted Janice Raymond’s argument: that transsexuals are patriarchal intruders into womanhood who reinforce traditional gender roles. Webb stopped claiming to be a woman and instead adopted Raymond’s label, ‘male-to-constructed-female’. This coloured her perspective on trans people’s place in the world for much of the 1980s and 1990s, though it was never the be-all and end-all of her politics. ...

https://www.historyworkshop.org.uk/activism-solidarity/rachael-webb-the-forgotten-trans-marxist/

(And so as to save it being said on any responses, the pronouns are more about the writer than the subject.)

Rachael Webb: The Forgotten Trans Marxist

Can the ideas of a controversial trans Marxist be recovered? Rebecca Jane Morgan on Rachael Webb's (1940-2009) class-based coalition politics.

https://www.historyworkshop.org.uk/activism-solidarity/rachael-webb-the-forgotten-trans-marxist/

OP posts:
BonfireLady · 24/09/2026 23:02

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 24/09/2026 21:21

Breaking: people are individuals, and have different points of views. There are narcissists, jerks and perverts in every section of society, but claiming a minority is defined by these traits is lazy bigotry.

More news as we get it.

Fair point. There will be narcissistic jerks and perverts who think that bio men should have the right to women's spaces in lots of different parts of society.

Cailleach1 · 24/09/2026 21:52

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 24/09/2026 21:21

Breaking: people are individuals, and have different points of views. There are narcissists, jerks and perverts in every section of society, but claiming a minority is defined by these traits is lazy bigotry.

More news as we get it.

Well, to an extent. We know that the vast, vast majority of sex offences are perpetrated by men. And, we know the majority of their victims are female. Also, that males have fetishes and paraphilias in a way that women don’t. These fetishes tend to escalate for the man to get the same ‘thrill’ for himself, and this can be a danger, if not fatal for their desired victims.

So males as a section of society, harbour way more dangerous individuals. And nobody ever changes sex as it is a development pathway, and is immutable. So, as long as we don’t try to pretend that men are not men. And, so long as nobody reduces safeguarding any further, and bricks back up the opened loopholes which are a detriment to women. Then at least there will be some measures in place to enable women to navigate the world, with more safety and comfort.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/09/2026 21:50

PriOn1 · 24/09/2026 21:48

Isn’t it? But you can see the problem from the calibre of the genderist comments on here. There’s no possibility of constructive discussion when one side insists that the lie that men are women has to be the starting point of any discussion. You can’t negotiate with anywho is so irrational. Some people who have transitioned do actually manage to listen to women and understand, which sounds like what occurred in case described in the OP but the most vocal are incapable of reasoning, or appear so on here anyway.

Edited

I know. I'd love to hear, genuinely, how trans women experience the world and how that relates or does not relate to the way I do. But how can you have that conversation when we aren't allowed to speak honestly about how and why we are different?

From time to time I come across really insightful or thought provoking posts, blogs and articles, but they are few and far between the ones that are just focussed on asserting their identity as Woman.

PriOn1 · 24/09/2026 21:48

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/09/2026 21:42

It's such a shame the possibility of a constructive dialogue and analysis of gender from our varying perspectives between feminists and trans women has been so thoroughly stymied by the absolutism of Genderists.

Isn’t it? But you can see the problem from the calibre of the genderist comments on here. There’s no possibility of constructive discussion when one side insists that the lie that men are women has to be the starting point of any discussion. You can’t negotiate with anywho is so irrational. Some people who have transitioned do actually manage to listen to women and understand, which sounds like what occurred in case described in the OP but the most vocal are incapable of reasoning, or appear so on here anyway.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/09/2026 21:42

It's such a shame the possibility of a constructive dialogue and analysis of gender from our varying perspectives between feminists and trans women has been so thoroughly stymied by the absolutism of Genderists.

PriOn1 · 24/09/2026 21:35

Quickest deletion ever. Looks like I hit a nerve!

PriOn1 · 24/09/2026 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 24/09/2026 21:21

Sodthesystem · 24/09/2026 19:05

There are many transsexuals like Buck Angel for example who are very vocal about how this new transGENDER ideology is not representative of them or the views of many. Transsexuals aren’t all narcissistic, entitled jerks or perverts who think bio men should have the right to women’s spaces.

And some, like Webb maybe didn’t give it the thought they should have and when they did, accepted what women wanted. So, respect.

The fact is that transsexuals are often expected to tow the party line regarding inclusivity to female spaces or they are criticised just like the rest of us. But there are absolutely those who speak up against the cult and who are refusing to be silenced.

Breaking: people are individuals, and have different points of views. There are narcissists, jerks and perverts in every section of society, but claiming a minority is defined by these traits is lazy bigotry.

More news as we get it.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/09/2026 20:23

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2026 19:18

Yes its a shame the thread about how trans culture got embedded got hijacked by some load of total irrelevancies.

This is interesting as it seems at that time the left certainly wont ganging up against women.

But yes a reminder that what is happening now is not "the" trans culture.

Yes. I remember when it seemed like trans women and drag queens were going to progress Feminism by being living proof that half of the, for want of a better word, ingredients that culture told us were quintessentially female worked just as well and could be enjoyed just as much by men.

But then the story become the ingredients were the actual source of womanhood, with the sex of the body an irrelevant and negligible detail not even worth a name, and well. Here we are.

Although with a wider lens, the problem women always run into with the left (and the right actually, but since they never pretend different it matters less) is that we are too normal, too everyday, too background to really get an activists juices pumping. It's like sticking up for the sofa when you come home every day and sit on it. So mostly, we became the background to more focusable-on subjects.

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2026 20:05

The idea that those who are part of the omnicause are in any way Marxist is so wide of the mark is absurd.

The are the bourgeois individualists.

And as such are convinced that from their position of superiority are rights and should lead and direct,

Certified by their dumbed down university education.

OP posts:
Apollo441 · 24/09/2026 19:59

Bang on. Marx would have no truck with transgenderism. It's an afront to material reality.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 24/09/2026 19:19

How do all the Omnicausers today who worship Marx like a God square that with the man who would have no truck today with transgender ideology, viewing it most likely as a concept that divides the working class and only benefits the boss class.
Transgender Marxists and Marxists that stick up for transgender ideology? Um, no.

IwantToRetire · 24/09/2026 19:18

Yes its a shame the thread about how trans culture got embedded got hijacked by some load of total irrelevancies.

This is interesting as it seems at that time the left certainly wont ganging up against women.

But yes a reminder that what is happening now is not "the" trans culture.

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 24/09/2026 19:11

Really interesting article, thank you.

Looking back to a time when there were still so many paths that could have been taken.

So sad (but maybe unavoidable) that the potential for blurring sexist social structures that trans identities once promised has ended up as a demand for Gender Supremacy over female people's self definition.

Sodthesystem · 24/09/2026 19:05

There are many transsexuals like Buck Angel for example who are very vocal about how this new transGENDER ideology is not representative of them or the views of many. Transsexuals aren’t all narcissistic, entitled jerks or perverts who think bio men should have the right to women’s spaces.

And some, like Webb maybe didn’t give it the thought they should have and when they did, accepted what women wanted. So, respect.

The fact is that transsexuals are often expected to tow the party line regarding inclusivity to female spaces or they are criticised just like the rest of us. But there are absolutely those who speak up against the cult and who are refusing to be silenced.

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