Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

374 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
sanluca · 25/09/2026 08:24

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:33

Um, that's Ahistorical news to the definition of feminism which is the "belief in and advocacy for the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes"
which all the different waves of feminism specifically fought for

First-Wave Feminism (Late 19th to Early 20th Century)

Second-Wave Feminism (1960s to 1980s)

  • Workplace Equality: Outlawed gender-based employment discrimination through measures like the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and bans on sex-segregated job advertisements. 1, 2, 3]
  • Educational Protections: Prohibited sex discrimination in federally funded education programs via Title IX (1972). 1]
  • Reproductive Autonomy: Legalized abortion access through Roe v. Wade (1973) and gained legal access to oral contraceptives. 1, 2]
  • Financial Independence: Banned credit discrimination against women via the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974. 1]
  • Protection from Abuse: Established domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centers, and legal recognition of marital rape and domestic abuse. 1, 2,

Third-Wave Feminism (1990s to 2010s)
Intersectionality and Diversity: Broadened the movement to embrace diverse identities, acknowledging how race, class, and sexuality intersect with gender (the concept coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw).
Workplace Harassment Protections: Brought systemic visibility and legal accountability to workplace sexual harassment, highlighted by cultural milestones like the Anita Hill hearings.
Individual and Sex-Positive Expression: Challenged rigid definitions of femininity, promoting bodily autonomy, individual empowerment, and personal expression. 1, 2, 3, , 6, 7]

Fourth-Wave Feminism (Mid-2010s to Present)
Digital Mobilization and Accountability: Leveraged social media platforms and viral movements like #MeToo to expose widespread sexual assault and hold powerful figures accountable.
Transgender and Inclusion Rights: Centered trans inclusivity, non-binary rights, and a global rejection of exclusionary or "white feminism".
Systemic and Structural Reform: Fought against continuous issues regarding systemic misogyny, rape culture, body shaming, and equal pay gaps globally. 1, 2, 3, 4,

Maybe sit this one out given you can't resist bending history to your own shape.

Roe vs Wade? Maybe look for a definition of feminism that is not US centered when discussing feminism on a UK site. I will even settle for an European definition.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 25/09/2026 09:58

With this distinction being made between women and females, if we were to take this at face value, can you imagine an Olympics where the female category would be biological females only, and the women's category would be biological females plus males iIDing into the social construct category of women.
Ditto males and men's category.
Because by this logic, by separating the definitions of female and woman, there would have to be seperate events.
Leaving the female event. The male event. And the open event.
<Now> we're getting the conclusion to this semantic rabbit hole.

OP posts:
StandingDeskDisco · 25/09/2026 09:58

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 22:04

It is vastly off topic for this thread, but it has drifted too far to be recovered now (sorry ), but would you care to expand upon what you are saying here?

In fact its right on topic to discuss how gendered behaviours influence trans identification thus 'embedding the trans movement'.

Is it something about how women feel that only women should be allowed to have a feminine presentation? Or that women are angry at feminine men for some reason?

Not women in general but specifically gender critical women seem to resent any feminine presentation in trans women.

The overt reason that women are so enraged by transwomen, and are not bothered by transmen, is that males are inherently dangerous to women (some few males, but we can't tell which ones until it is too late), so transwomen invading female-only spaces is a genuine cause of fear (not necessarily fear of any particular transwoman in front of us in the moment, but fear of the dismantling of safeguarding for women across the board).

Again, if its the potential danger or use of female coded language (as perviously asserted) that trans women present then why the necessity to frame such grievances in mocking demeaning language such as 'woman face' 'men in dresses' 'cross dressers' & 'AGP' or as any other sexual deviancy? Why, the deliberate mocking of attempts at feminine expression of natal males?

However it is worth discussing whether there are, as you propose, other deeper psychological factors at work behind this rage.
One snippet of evidence is the way that society widely accepts the adoption of what used to be coded 'masculine' clothes by women, whereas there is still a common taboo against men ordinarily wearing 'feminine' coded clothes. Some taboos for women still remain: we can wear tailored trouser suits to the office, but don't ordinarily wear ties. The taboos for men are wider and deeper.

Nail on head. And the reason? INTERNALISED MISOGYNY. The demeaning of feminine expression AKA femmephobia has a long history rooted in the systemic devaluation of traits, behaviours and aesthetics associated with women and femininity. Historically, patriarchal structures have positioned masculinity as the universal human standard leaving femininity to be viewed as inferior, superficial, or manipulative.

Describing feminine traits, behaviours and aesthetics as purely a 'stereotype' is simply another form of femmephobia. Just because patriarchal & social expectations exist regarding feminine expression doesn't mean that's the only cause of them. In fact gendered traits are considered as both a nature/nurture phenomenon with genes, hormones & evolutionary survival & mating pressures influencing their expression.

The idea modern women in the west are haplessly slaves to social expectations with zero individual autonomy not only infantilises them but is a deeply sexist trope that your average MRA spouts ad infinitum. In fact they will only be too happy to shout from the roof tops how feminism was a 'learned' indoctrinated phenomena & what women want is just to stay home & have babies. See the parallels of denying personal authenticity?

And now for how gendered traits, behaviours and aesthetics are relevant to the OP's question. Given these are biologically influenced & long standing evolutionary strategies that are shared by the sexes they implicate the psychological & cognitive interchangeability of men & women. In other words, trans people are here to stay because shared gendered traits are part of the human condition.

Edited

specifically gender critical women seem to resent any feminine presentation in trans women
There are two things to unpick here. First, what is the emotion: are we talking about resentment, anger, fear, or disgust? Or something else or a combination of these? Second, is this reaction just coming from GC women, or is in actually common among all women but you don't notice it? For example, if the reaction is fear, many/most women will deliberately try to hide that by fawning (an evolutionary defence mechanism against perceived danger). You may be overlooking or misinterpreting the reaction of non GC women.

mocking demeaning language such as 'woman face' 'men in dresses' 'cross dressers' & 'AGP'
I don't consider these to be mocking or demeaning, but accurate descriptions. We have to have terms to describe the phenomena we are analysing.

Why, the deliberate mocking of attempts at feminine expression of natal males?
This goes back to the question of identifying the underlying emotional reactions: women's fear, anger, resentment, disgust, or whatever. Add to those the long-standing cultural conditioning that means people find men in dresses simply funny and ridiculous. It is a normal reaction to mock the ridiculous. Not saying it is morally right or kind, but it is an explanation.
We can unpick just why people find men in dresses ridiculous, which would involve a discussion of the psychological phenomenon of 'humour' and a whole lot else. Not sure I have the energy for that.

Describing feminine traits, behaviours and aesthetics as purely a 'stereotype' is simply another form of femmephobia.
But the words feminine and femininity do simply refer to stereotypes. That is all those words mean. See the discussion over the last few pages.
The entire rickety edifice of 'gender' and 'femininity' is built upon nothing but social stereotypes.

gendered traits are considered as both a nature/nurture phenomenon with genes, hormones & evolutionary survival & mating pressures influencing their expression
It is an ongoing discussion as to how genetic and biological factors interact with social stereotypes. But here's the thing: only biological females can have 'feminine' or gendered traits arising from genes / biology. Males don't have this biology, so if they want to present as women, all they have is the adoption of stereotypes.

The idea modern women in the west are haplessly slaves to social expectations with zero individual autonomy not only infantilises them but is a deeply sexist trope
Of course. As every feminist will agree. Not sure where this fits into your argument, unless it is a straw man?

gendered traits, behaviours and aesthetics [...] Given these are biologically influenced & long standing evolutionary strategies that are shared by the sexes they implicate the psychological & cognitive interchangeability of men & women.
See my comment above: only biological females can have 'feminine' or gendered traits arising from genes / biology.
There is no gendered trait that is shared by the sexes that arises from biology. Men and women may share many gender traits that lead to "the psychological & cognitive interchangeability of men & women", but they arise from social stereotypes, nothing else.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 25/09/2026 10:11

StandingDeskDisco · 25/09/2026 09:58

specifically gender critical women seem to resent any feminine presentation in trans women
There are two things to unpick here. First, what is the emotion: are we talking about resentment, anger, fear, or disgust? Or something else or a combination of these? Second, is this reaction just coming from GC women, or is in actually common among all women but you don't notice it? For example, if the reaction is fear, many/most women will deliberately try to hide that by fawning (an evolutionary defence mechanism against perceived danger). You may be overlooking or misinterpreting the reaction of non GC women.

mocking demeaning language such as 'woman face' 'men in dresses' 'cross dressers' & 'AGP'
I don't consider these to be mocking or demeaning, but accurate descriptions. We have to have terms to describe the phenomena we are analysing.

Why, the deliberate mocking of attempts at feminine expression of natal males?
This goes back to the question of identifying the underlying emotional reactions: women's fear, anger, resentment, disgust, or whatever. Add to those the long-standing cultural conditioning that means people find men in dresses simply funny and ridiculous. It is a normal reaction to mock the ridiculous. Not saying it is morally right or kind, but it is an explanation.
We can unpick just why people find men in dresses ridiculous, which would involve a discussion of the psychological phenomenon of 'humour' and a whole lot else. Not sure I have the energy for that.

Describing feminine traits, behaviours and aesthetics as purely a 'stereotype' is simply another form of femmephobia.
But the words feminine and femininity do simply refer to stereotypes. That is all those words mean. See the discussion over the last few pages.
The entire rickety edifice of 'gender' and 'femininity' is built upon nothing but social stereotypes.

gendered traits are considered as both a nature/nurture phenomenon with genes, hormones & evolutionary survival & mating pressures influencing their expression
It is an ongoing discussion as to how genetic and biological factors interact with social stereotypes. But here's the thing: only biological females can have 'feminine' or gendered traits arising from genes / biology. Males don't have this biology, so if they want to present as women, all they have is the adoption of stereotypes.

The idea modern women in the west are haplessly slaves to social expectations with zero individual autonomy not only infantilises them but is a deeply sexist trope
Of course. As every feminist will agree. Not sure where this fits into your argument, unless it is a straw man?

gendered traits, behaviours and aesthetics [...] Given these are biologically influenced & long standing evolutionary strategies that are shared by the sexes they implicate the psychological & cognitive interchangeability of men & women.
See my comment above: only biological females can have 'feminine' or gendered traits arising from genes / biology.
There is no gendered trait that is shared by the sexes that arises from biology. Men and women may share many gender traits that lead to "the psychological & cognitive interchangeability of men & women", but they arise from social stereotypes, nothing else.

After reading her replies, I can see that the trans attitude is purely that society orders around stereotypes and social interaction. She's said it herself, female is a subset within woman, female the natal sex, woman the natal sex plus natal males IDing as women by way of the stereotypes of femininity they feel represents them.
This is way bigger than the pure biological function that is restricted to females.
Just imagine the rape statistics to start, infinite increase in women raping females.
Because in a world where the female class is natal XX and the woman class is natal XX plus those natal XY who ID as women, and since females can't rape females, but natal males in the women class can, and a proportion will, then these wild stats will be inevitable.
That's just for starters in the Bizzaro world envisaged

OP posts:
Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

StandingDeskDisco · 25/09/2026 11:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

When you resort to personal abuse, you have lost the argument.

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:06

why people find men in dresses ridiculous

This is to do with the power imbalance. See comments on 'punching up' and 'punching down'. Men hold more power, in almost every metric. So for them to adopt 'femininity' is seen as demeaning. I agree a bit with Northernlightss on this; it is sexism that suggests that women are 'lesser' and that men pretending to be women are therefore 'cissies' or demeaning themselves.

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:07

As for adhoms, I'm afraid you'll find this poster very quickly resorts to sneering, attack, and ridicule. We're all quite used to it by now.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/09/2026 12:08

Genderists logic is so weird.

It's like because apples and fire-engines happen to share the trait of redness, apples and fire-engines are more meaningfully the same than they are different. So the same in fact that we don't even need a word for "apples that are not fireengines" or "fireengines that are not apples"

And if you point out that actually some apples and some fire engines aren't even red, well apparently the commonality of redness is so strong and creates such a meaningful group even things that share a different trait than redness with a subset of that core group count as well. A kind of redness-by-association 😂

But of course be careful, because only some traits count as relevant associations here... and amazingly, by some ker-azy coincidence, these are exactly the ones that let Genderists draw their gender lines to include all people of one biological sex other than those who explicitly claim to be trans plus the people of the other biological sex as long as they claim to be trans.

Because commanalities, you see. But it's all totally scientific and objective.

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 25/09/2026 12:13

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:06

why people find men in dresses ridiculous

This is to do with the power imbalance. See comments on 'punching up' and 'punching down'. Men hold more power, in almost every metric. So for them to adopt 'femininity' is seen as demeaning. I agree a bit with Northernlightss on this; it is sexism that suggests that women are 'lesser' and that men pretending to be women are therefore 'cissies' or demeaning themselves.

The reason that people find men in dresses ridiculous is that usually they look so laughably bad as women. Normally they present a very unconvincing pastiche of femininity. Think of Sophie Molly's polycule. They just look like a bunch of weirdly deformed men.

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:13

StandingDeskDisco · 25/09/2026 11:56

When you resort to personal abuse, you have lost the argument.

This you?

"99% of your posts are meaningless, logically incoherent, or just plain factually incorrect."

You can dish it out but can't take it….

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:18

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 25/09/2026 12:13

The reason that people find men in dresses ridiculous is that usually they look so laughably bad as women. Normally they present a very unconvincing pastiche of femininity. Think of Sophie Molly's polycule. They just look like a bunch of weirdly deformed men.

But we don't find women pretending to be men so 'laughably bad'. Arguably because they are 'punching up', not puncturing the perceived hierarchy of males as superior sex willingly demeaning themselves.

This is where the erotic charge comes from for those who indulge in transvestic fetishism.

Why do I know all this. I wish I didn't know all this. A bloke got done for forcibly sniffing girls' feet yesterday. Will it ever end?

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:18

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:13

This you?

"99% of your posts are meaningless, logically incoherent, or just plain factually incorrect."

You can dish it out but can't take it….

Those are judgements, not ad hom attacks. You seem to have trouble gauging social interactions.

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 25/09/2026 12:21

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:18

But we don't find women pretending to be men so 'laughably bad'. Arguably because they are 'punching up', not puncturing the perceived hierarchy of males as superior sex willingly demeaning themselves.

This is where the erotic charge comes from for those who indulge in transvestic fetishism.

Why do I know all this. I wish I didn't know all this. A bloke got done for forcibly sniffing girls' feet yesterday. Will it ever end?

But we don't find women pretending to be men so 'laughably bad'.

Maybe because women are better at man-ing that men are at woman-ing?😀

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:22

ArabellaScott · 25/09/2026 12:18

Those are judgements, not ad hom attacks. You seem to have trouble gauging social interactions.

If the shoe fits is simply a descriptor.

You seem to have trouble gauging factual observations.

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 25/09/2026 12:22

Well, I've certainly "learnt" something on my own thread, care of Northernlightsss.
First, that sex and gender are specific and seperate, and that the gender category is the larger one, coopting the sex one.
So "female" is the natal sex category, covering all those things that we know are essentially female ie large gamete production, typical secondary sex characteristics, obviously no Y chromosome, the bearing of children, menopause...I'm sure I've missed some things.
But this as a subset sits within the "girl/woman" category, what is deemed the social construct category that includes those females who ID as girls/women in this new world, to be forever known as cis, and those natal males who for whatever reason, and apparently the scientific proof is racking up that it's indeed absolutely physiological, ID as girls/women. Can add DSD males to the girls/women category if they were brought up as girls and feel that way as male puberty strikes.
Of course, natal females can opt into the "boys/men" gender category.
So in this world, biological function is of course important, but internal gender imperatives, and the social interaction that results from this, is more important.
In our daily lives, it's not having a baby, going thru the menopause, risk from rape and other violence, that defines being a woman/womanhood. It's how you feel, how feminine or masculine you feel, how happy you are if this is affirmed by others, and thus how much less hateful society would be.
Being beaten at sport by natal male bodies, being at risk of violence and rape because you're weaker than natal male bodies, being harassed in prisons because you're forced into proximity with natal male bodies, feeling like you can't talk freely about DV in a refuge because natal male bodies are in the room, feeling like you can't have privacy in a toilet/shower/changing room, because natal male bodies might look in, unable to join a lesbian dating site because natal male bodies send you inappropriate photos etc...none of these mainly sum up the main experience of women, the main experience of women is actually the display of feminity (or butchness), how women feel in their make up and dress, and how others respond to them.
Caveat...if anybody thinks I subscribe to Northernlightss mantra, I don't, I'm just writing it down as I understand it from his seperation of female/woman based on woman being natal females plus socially constructed ones.

OP posts:
Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:30

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 25/09/2026 12:13

The reason that people find men in dresses ridiculous is that usually they look so laughably bad as women. Normally they present a very unconvincing pastiche of femininity. Think of Sophie Molly's polycule. They just look like a bunch of weirdly deformed men.

You could say the same about older women 'impersonating' younger women 'unconvincingly' & grotesquely 'deformed'. 'Mutton as lamb' 'Miss Havisham' & all that. But that would be rightly considered as misogyny.

The hypocrisy just keeps coming.

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:34

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 25/09/2026 12:22

Well, I've certainly "learnt" something on my own thread, care of Northernlightsss.
First, that sex and gender are specific and seperate, and that the gender category is the larger one, coopting the sex one.
So "female" is the natal sex category, covering all those things that we know are essentially female ie large gamete production, typical secondary sex characteristics, obviously no Y chromosome, the bearing of children, menopause...I'm sure I've missed some things.
But this as a subset sits within the "girl/woman" category, what is deemed the social construct category that includes those females who ID as girls/women in this new world, to be forever known as cis, and those natal males who for whatever reason, and apparently the scientific proof is racking up that it's indeed absolutely physiological, ID as girls/women. Can add DSD males to the girls/women category if they were brought up as girls and feel that way as male puberty strikes.
Of course, natal females can opt into the "boys/men" gender category.
So in this world, biological function is of course important, but internal gender imperatives, and the social interaction that results from this, is more important.
In our daily lives, it's not having a baby, going thru the menopause, risk from rape and other violence, that defines being a woman/womanhood. It's how you feel, how feminine or masculine you feel, how happy you are if this is affirmed by others, and thus how much less hateful society would be.
Being beaten at sport by natal male bodies, being at risk of violence and rape because you're weaker than natal male bodies, being harassed in prisons because you're forced into proximity with natal male bodies, feeling like you can't talk freely about DV in a refuge because natal male bodies are in the room, feeling like you can't have privacy in a toilet/shower/changing room, because natal male bodies might look in, unable to join a lesbian dating site because natal male bodies send you inappropriate photos etc...none of these mainly sum up the main experience of women, the main experience of women is actually the display of feminity (or butchness), how women feel in their make up and dress, and how others respond to them.
Caveat...if anybody thinks I subscribe to Northernlightss mantra, I don't, I'm just writing it down as I understand it from his seperation of female/woman based on woman being natal females plus socially constructed ones.

Edited

Cool story bro….

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 25/09/2026 12:37

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:34

Cool story bro….

So, I've gone from "what are you taking about?" to "cool story bro"
Wow, I'm making progress.
I genuinely want to thank you for fleshing the ideas behind the gender motivated re-designation of women.
I've genuinely learnt a lot from you.
Cool posts sis.

OP posts:
FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/09/2026 12:38

Misogyny is, of course, also the denial of the female half of the humanity as a meaningful social group in its own right with the moral right to our own name and history, to describe our needs and experiences in our own words, to analyse for ourselves our commonalities both physical and experiental because of our sex, and to have a political movement, Feminism, that seeks to ensure our safety, opportunities and autonomy are not limited simply because we are female.

Indeed, one cannot fully appreciate the Misogyny of "mutton dressed as lamb" unless one understands the physical and social consequences of age for female people and the history behind them.

MrPrettyDamnCosmic · 25/09/2026 12:40

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:30

You could say the same about older women 'impersonating' younger women 'unconvincingly' & grotesquely 'deformed'. 'Mutton as lamb' 'Miss Havisham' & all that. But that would be rightly considered as misogyny.

The hypocrisy just keeps coming.

Howse it hypocritical to laugh at men ridiculously failing to be any kind of a woman? The correct comparator to your "older women 'impersonating' younger women" would be MAMIL or wearing tight jeans with a dad bod not piss-poor female impersonators.

HousePlantEmergency · 25/09/2026 12:45

It becomes mocking when outlandish claims are made - when males say they've actually become females.
Up until that point, I have no words to describe how small of a shit I give for what anyone wears. Or whether they are suitably masculine or feminine by the standards of.their birth sex.
Really - No. One.Cares.
Most of us are busy. I'm busy. Really fucking busy. All the time. I don't have time for this shit. It really is all very teenage navel gazing.

I couldn't give a monkeys about what you wear, what your name is, how you identify., what your pronouns are (as youre very unlikely to hear me use them)
And all of this is just a big game of pretend, at the end of the day.

I wouldn't ridicule anyone for their clothing choices.
I'm afraid playing pretend as an adult - men expecting everyone to view them as women and expecting the rest of society to pretend with them, is where it becomes ridiculous.
That is worthy of ridicule. Because it is ridiculous.

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:47

HousePlantEmergency · 25/09/2026 12:45

It becomes mocking when outlandish claims are made - when males say they've actually become females.
Up until that point, I have no words to describe how small of a shit I give for what anyone wears. Or whether they are suitably masculine or feminine by the standards of.their birth sex.
Really - No. One.Cares.
Most of us are busy. I'm busy. Really fucking busy. All the time. I don't have time for this shit. It really is all very teenage navel gazing.

I couldn't give a monkeys about what you wear, what your name is, how you identify., what your pronouns are (as youre very unlikely to hear me use them)
And all of this is just a big game of pretend, at the end of the day.

I wouldn't ridicule anyone for their clothing choices.
I'm afraid playing pretend as an adult - men expecting everyone to view them as women and expecting the rest of society to pretend with them, is where it becomes ridiculous.
That is worthy of ridicule. Because it is ridiculous.

Oh get over yourself princess. Respecting other people's right to define themselves or their right to choices isn't a belief statement.

BackToLurk · 25/09/2026 12:49

Northernlightsss · 25/09/2026 12:47

Oh get over yourself princess. Respecting other people's right to define themselves or their right to choices isn't a belief statement.

"I'm afraid playing pretend as an adult - men expecting everyone to view them as women and expecting the rest of society to pretend with them, is where it becomes ridiculous."

MrsOvertonsWindow · 25/09/2026 12:50

It's always interesting to see how many of the rules of misogyny can be evidenced by one poster. I've deleted a few of them, but as usual Northern's managed to encapsulate most of them via his endless sneering posts

  1. Women are responsible for what men do.
  2. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
  3. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
  4. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

8. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

9. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

  1. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

  2. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

  1. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

  1. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

As usual, there are numerous outstanding posts in response but @IWantToRetire does have a point about how successfully one poster can derail a thread - especially when it relates to exposing facts that some would rather keep hidden.