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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Some clarity in how the trans movement became so embedded, so preeminent

378 replies

MarcTheGenderSkeptic · 22/09/2026 13:17

Despite being called a conspiracist here by a TRA, actually I work very hard to continually interrogate my thought processes, and not fall into easy generalisations etc.
So, I was reading Róisín Michaux and her fascinating conversation with someone high up in HIV funding, and the push in the last 20 years is to get everyone in the tent on retrovirals, meaning reaching out to not just gays and addicts, but sex workers (incl trans) and critically, the "third genders" who have migrated to the West in large numbers to end up as sex workers. And the decision was made to go for maximum anti stigmatization, which means zero messaging on personal behaviour, and critically deciding to accept these men as women. Don't blame them, get more onside.
Guess who has to move aside, and accept the messaging on health grounds that biological men can be women? Made even worse by the increase in HIV in European women who are the partners of men who use the services of these "third genders".
Then yesterday I read the amazing post from Hellofabore about how for 30 years plus, the sports authorities including IOC and FIFA decided to make total inclusion the policy, phasing out gender testing, primarily to allow the male DSDs from Africa mainly to be included, as they were IDd as female at birth, and the cruelty to deny they're still female is wrong.
Again, the overwhelming need is to not stigmatize these individuals. Of course a huge group (we know who) are stigmatized for objecting to losing sports opportunities.
And then back to Róisín Michaux again, her illuminating the revolution in psychiatric medicine, where men back in the day were diagnosed with transvestic disorder, a pure paraphylia, again to stop judging and be more inclusive, underwent massive de-stigmatisation and de-pathologisation, from paraphylia, to dysphoria, now to common all garden "sexual health category".
Three enormous areas where the drive to include men, to destigmatise their plight, to bring them in from the cold, couldn't happen in a vacuum. Society organised along sex-based lines couldn't be simply recategorised, no, a large population group (51% XX) was expected to move over, make their definition porous, extend the collective hand of kindness and inclusion, to this hardcore of men who were deemed most at risk, and needing most help.
At the same time, this blurring of definitions and imposed inclusivity spread from sport and medicine to law and education, the most motivated men worked hard to get the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book, and via Stonewall culture, "social training" and the "trans child" escalated as concepts and then real world consequences as noone in polite society other than a very brave few said anything.
So now we have developing nations male DSDs and "third genders", socially incorporated transvestites/transsexuals, and queer culture first world transgenders in the mix, a political culture in the West frozen into aquiescence and policy drift, and the only light of realism and sanity, an army of women fighting back, with amazing results re SC ruling, banishing self ID into the long grass, and medical and sports bodies tacking back to sanity.
But reading the almost scary analogousness of how health brought in trans and third genders at the expense of women, sport brought in male DSDs at the expense of women, psychiatry brought in transvestites from the cold at the expense of women, you can then see how the most motivated men got the Gender Recognition Act on the statute book to turbo charge the social trans/trans child revolution.
For me, I can now see the past as it travels into the future.

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BackToLurk · 24/09/2026 06:56

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:54

I didn't. That's on you.

You should read the content you C&P.

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:54

BackToLurk · 24/09/2026 06:53

Why would you imagine America was global feminism?

I didn't. That's on you.

BackToLurk · 24/09/2026 06:53

BlueLegume · 24/09/2026 06:50

@Northernlightsss so you ‘love it when a plan comes together’

And there it is. Women you will acquiesce to what men want. Nobody was mocked. You used the term cross dressing not me.

Men have been gender non conforming for centuries. But they and us still knew they were men.

MRAs gonna MRA

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:53

BlueLegume · 24/09/2026 06:50

@Northernlightsss so you ‘love it when a plan comes together’

And there it is. Women you will acquiesce to what men want. Nobody was mocked. You used the term cross dressing not me.

Men have been gender non conforming for centuries. But they and us still knew they were men.

The reference to 'a plan coming together' is the gender critical movement exposing themselves as frauds regarding stereotyping.

But yeah, keep up the daft paranoias….

BackToLurk · 24/09/2026 06:53

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:33

Um, that's Ahistorical news to the definition of feminism which is the "belief in and advocacy for the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes"
which all the different waves of feminism specifically fought for

First-Wave Feminism (Late 19th to Early 20th Century)

Second-Wave Feminism (1960s to 1980s)

  • Workplace Equality: Outlawed gender-based employment discrimination through measures like the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and bans on sex-segregated job advertisements. 1, 2, 3]
  • Educational Protections: Prohibited sex discrimination in federally funded education programs via Title IX (1972). 1]
  • Reproductive Autonomy: Legalized abortion access through Roe v. Wade (1973) and gained legal access to oral contraceptives. 1, 2]
  • Financial Independence: Banned credit discrimination against women via the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974. 1]
  • Protection from Abuse: Established domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centers, and legal recognition of marital rape and domestic abuse. 1, 2,

Third-Wave Feminism (1990s to 2010s)
Intersectionality and Diversity: Broadened the movement to embrace diverse identities, acknowledging how race, class, and sexuality intersect with gender (the concept coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw).
Workplace Harassment Protections: Brought systemic visibility and legal accountability to workplace sexual harassment, highlighted by cultural milestones like the Anita Hill hearings.
Individual and Sex-Positive Expression: Challenged rigid definitions of femininity, promoting bodily autonomy, individual empowerment, and personal expression. 1, 2, 3, , 6, 7]

Fourth-Wave Feminism (Mid-2010s to Present)
Digital Mobilization and Accountability: Leveraged social media platforms and viral movements like #MeToo to expose widespread sexual assault and hold powerful figures accountable.
Transgender and Inclusion Rights: Centered trans inclusivity, non-binary rights, and a global rejection of exclusionary or "white feminism".
Systemic and Structural Reform: Fought against continuous issues regarding systemic misogyny, rape culture, body shaming, and equal pay gaps globally. 1, 2, 3, 4,

Maybe sit this one out given you can't resist bending history to your own shape.

Why would you imagine America was global feminism?

BlueLegume · 24/09/2026 06:50

@Northernlightsss so you ‘love it when a plan comes together’

And there it is. Women you will acquiesce to what men want. Nobody was mocked. You used the term cross dressing not me.

Men have been gender non conforming for centuries. But they and us still knew they were men.

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:49

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:42

I am tired of the men in particular dressing as women who frankly are wearing woman face.

I love it when a plan comes together.

The gender critical movement never met a stereotype they didn't like when it comes to men. 'Suddenly', 'why can't men just be effeminate men & stay in their own lane' falls apart when males attempt to do so. They are mocked as 'woman face' 'men in dresses' & 'cross dressers'.

The issue for them has never been the stereotyping of women's behaviour but that males dare to be gender non conforming. Its a misogynistic movement to its core.

Oh my stars. Oh no, I totally agree men should wear dresses or what ever else they fancy. It just doesn’t make them women in any way They can wear whatever they like whilst using male facilities.

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:44

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:37

Because you posted them to back up your “statements”. So if half your “proof” is defective, why should I believe your other er…. Writings

So you won't challenge any of those statements because you can't & are using links as a diversion?

Thanks for backing me up pal.

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:42

BlueLegume · 24/09/2026 06:33

@Northernlightsss clearly you are on a thread where most posters are questioning the healthiness of affirming trans identity and how it fits into modern society and specifically how it impacts women and their rights.

I get it. You are completely en thrall to trans being real and have spent quite a lot of time and energy telling us we are wrong and posting reasons and links as to why. You repeatedly use the term gender critical even citing the ‘gender critical movement’. I am not part of any movement. I am a sex realist.

Bodily autonomy-absolutely until it becomes unhealthy. See Katie Price. We are literally watching a woman with bodily autonomy die slowly. She is not healthy. But let’s stay quiet because bodily autonomy is king.

Anorexia. Affirm the care of someone who thinks they are fat? What is your stance on that. Affirm they are fat and provide weight loss care?

I appreciate the trans issue has become a real hot potato but you must be able to see the reality is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Living through the 70s and 80s as a teen and young adult we understood gender non conformity and cracked on with life. We did not insist that Marilyn on Top of the Pops was truly a girl, nor did Marilyn. We knew Annie Lennox was female whilst dressed in a suit and tie with a buzz cut. They were costumes, just like the costumes worn by men larping as women and women opting out of a stereotypical feminine style. I am tired of the men in particular dressing as women who frankly are wearing woman face. I assume men feel similarly about women who decide they are men and take testosterone. They are wearing man face. They will never have a prostate issue. This whole thread has laid bare the utter ridiculous notion of word salad arguments about sex and gender in 2026. Tickle vs Giggle being the ultimate example.

Links to how the world was captured would be more help than wiki links.

I am of the view that if you buy into all the trans affirmation you are either too weak to be honest about reality or really daft and believe anything you are told.

Edited

I am tired of the men in particular dressing as women who frankly are wearing woman face.

I love it when a plan comes together.

The gender critical movement never met a stereotype they didn't like when it comes to men. 'Suddenly', 'why can't men just be effeminate men & stay in their own lane' falls apart when males attempt to do so. They are mocked as 'woman face' 'men in dresses' & 'cross dressers'.

The issue for them has never been the stereotyping of women's behaviour but that males dare to be gender non conforming. Its a misogynistic movement to its core.

HousePlantEmergency · 24/09/2026 06:39

Jesus, this guy gives me the creeps.

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:37

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:34

You are challenging the statements. What is wrong about them? Why are the links necessary if you know the statements to be wrong?

Because you posted them to back up your “statements”. So if half your “proof” is defective, why should I believe your other er…. Writings

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:34

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:19

you embedded links as your “proof”. If I can’t see the links, how do I know if you’re wrong? Are you just saying “trust me bro”.
You seem a bit snippy today. Have you tried smiling more?

Edited

You are challenging the statements. What is wrong about them? Why are the links necessary if you know the statements to be wrong?

BlueLegume · 24/09/2026 06:33

@Northernlightsss clearly you are on a thread where most posters are questioning the healthiness of affirming trans identity and how it fits into modern society and specifically how it impacts women and their rights.

I get it. You are completely en thrall to trans being real and have spent quite a lot of time and energy telling us we are wrong and posting reasons and links as to why. You repeatedly use the term gender critical even citing the ‘gender critical movement’. I am not part of any movement. I am a sex realist.

Bodily autonomy-absolutely until it becomes unhealthy. See Katie Price. We are literally watching a woman with bodily autonomy die slowly. She is not healthy. But let’s stay quiet because bodily autonomy is king.

Anorexia. Affirm the care of someone who thinks they are fat? What is your stance on that. Affirm they are fat and provide weight loss care?

I appreciate the trans issue has become a real hot potato but you must be able to see the reality is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Living through the 70s and 80s as a teen and young adult we understood gender non conformity and cracked on with life. We did not insist that Marilyn on Top of the Pops was truly a girl, nor did Marilyn. We knew Annie Lennox was female whilst dressed in a suit and tie with a buzz cut. They were costumes, just like the costumes worn by men larping as women and women opting out of a stereotypical feminine style. I am tired of the men in particular dressing as women who frankly are wearing woman face. I assume men feel similarly about women who decide they are men and take testosterone. They are wearing man face. They will never have a prostate issue. This whole thread has laid bare the utter ridiculous notion of word salad arguments about sex and gender in 2026. Tickle vs Giggle being the ultimate example.

Links to how the world was captured would be more help than wiki links.

I am of the view that if you buy into all the trans affirmation you are either too weak to be honest about reality or really daft and believe anything you are told.

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:30

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:11

No, neither grounded in reality. Sex is not assigned at birth, that’s your first error. There is no one going round choosing what sex a baby is when it comes out. Unless of course you are saying all sonographers are lying?

what is gender identity? How should someone “know” they are the opposite sex really? I mean, what criteria would a male use to “know” he is a woman? What woman does he compare himself to? All he can do is compare himself to his idea of what a woman feels like. So he “feels like” a man who has his idea of what a woman feels like. He does not know what it feels like to be a woman.

Both gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia are deep beliefs something is wrong with the body. Why (according to you) is one based in reality and one not? Gender dysphoria is an obsessive belief on a perceived flaw in physical appearance and so is body dysmorphia.

So why do you believe gender dysphoria should be treated with “affirming care”, but body dysmorphia should not be affirmed?

Anorexics also have a deep belief something is wrong with their body? Should we affirm anorexics also? Instead of therapy and treatment we should affirm their belief and point them to weight watchers and ozempic? If not, why not?

No, neither grounded in reality. Sex is not assigned at birth, that’s your first error. There is no one going round choosing what sex a baby is when it comes out. Unless of course you are saying all sonographers are lying?

Um, that's not what was said so I don't where you get the daft assumption that doctors 'choose' a sex. All that's being said is doctors assign a sex based on their observations.

what is gender identity? How should someone “know” they are the opposite sex really? I mean, what criteria would a male use to “know” he is a woman? What woman does he compare himself to? All he can do is compare himself to his idea of what a woman feels like. So he “feels like” a man who has his idea of what a woman feels like. He does not know what it feels like to be a woman.

Gender identity is a person's internal sense of being a man, a woman, both, or neither. It is a core part of who you are and how you understand yourself based on your personal traits as applied to social categorisations.

Both gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia are deep beliefs something is wrong with the body. Why (according to you) is one based in reality and one not? Gender dysphoria is an obsessive belief on a perceived flaw in physical appearance and so is body dysmorphia.

The difference is there's an actual basis in reality for gender dysphoria & that is the existence of the person's individual gendered traits for example a butch female or effeminate male who wants to align their body with these psychological traits.

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:26

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:25

Wrong reply? I didn't post any videos

Aww sorry, meant to quote @Northernlightsss

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:25

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:13

Well your video links aren’t working so……

Wrong reply? I didn't post any videos

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:20

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:54

That social pressures exist that can cause harm doesn't mean autonomous authenticity can't. Two things can be true at once hence Gillick competence becoming law. Trans adults often report being aware of their gender incongruence as a child which aligns with psychological research regarding early childhood awareness of identity. And trans identities existed long before social media & increasing social acceptance.

And gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia are two separate concepts where only one is considered a pathology. Gender dysphoria is distress from a mismatch between gender identity and assigned sex at birth, while body dysmorphia is an obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in physical appearance. Gender dysphoria comes from gender identity not matching your body. Body dysmorphia comes from a distorted mental image of a specific body part.

In other words one has a grounding in reality & the other doesn't.

And gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia are two separate concepts where only one is considered a pathology. Gender dysphoria is distress from a mismatch between gender identity and assigned sex at birth, while body dysmorphia is an obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in physical appearance. Gender dysphoria comes from gender identity not matching your body. Body dysmorphia comes from a distorted mental image of a specific body part.

In other words one has a grounding in reality & the other doesn't.

Not sure I can detect any difference between those 2 comparisons. A psychological issue creates a schism between physical reality and false belief (I am the opposite sex, or I am grossly overweight) causing, your words, "an obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in physical appearance".
Can you define gender identity and exactly what test we can apply to differentiate gender dysphoria from body dysmorphia? It just sounds like a variant to me.

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:19

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:17

Geezus.

What specific statements did I make that were 'wrong' & why?

you embedded links as your “proof”. If I can’t see the links, how do I know if you’re wrong? Are you just saying “trust me bro”.
You seem a bit snippy today. Have you tried smiling more?

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:17

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:13

Well your video links aren’t working so……

Geezus.

What specific statements did I make that were 'wrong' & why?

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:13

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:06

Anyone can Google mate, and "The Conversation" is hardly reputable feminist literature. As someone who has been reading first, second and third wave feminist works my whole life, I'm going to call BS on your google search opinion.

Well your video links aren’t working so……

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 06:11

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:54

That social pressures exist that can cause harm doesn't mean autonomous authenticity can't. Two things can be true at once hence Gillick competence becoming law. Trans adults often report being aware of their gender incongruence as a child which aligns with psychological research regarding early childhood awareness of identity. And trans identities existed long before social media & increasing social acceptance.

And gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia are two separate concepts where only one is considered a pathology. Gender dysphoria is distress from a mismatch between gender identity and assigned sex at birth, while body dysmorphia is an obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in physical appearance. Gender dysphoria comes from gender identity not matching your body. Body dysmorphia comes from a distorted mental image of a specific body part.

In other words one has a grounding in reality & the other doesn't.

No, neither grounded in reality. Sex is not assigned at birth, that’s your first error. There is no one going round choosing what sex a baby is when it comes out. Unless of course you are saying all sonographers are lying?

what is gender identity? How should someone “know” they are the opposite sex really? I mean, what criteria would a male use to “know” he is a woman? What woman does he compare himself to? All he can do is compare himself to his idea of what a woman feels like. So he “feels like” a man who has his idea of what a woman feels like. He does not know what it feels like to be a woman.

Both gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia are deep beliefs something is wrong with the body. Why (according to you) is one based in reality and one not? Gender dysphoria is an obsessive belief on a perceived flaw in physical appearance and so is body dysmorphia.

So why do you believe gender dysphoria should be treated with “affirming care”, but body dysmorphia should not be affirmed?

Anorexics also have a deep belief something is wrong with their body? Should we affirm anorexics also? Instead of therapy and treatment we should affirm their belief and point them to weight watchers and ozempic? If not, why not?

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 06:09

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:06

Anyone can Google mate, and "The Conversation" is hardly reputable feminist literature. As someone who has been reading first, second and third wave feminist works my whole life, I'm going to call BS on your google search opinion.

Yeah? Point to where it is wrong & why. Do you even know how to make a valid argument? In other words, put up or shut up.

Manyanamanyana · 24/09/2026 06:06

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:33

Um, that's Ahistorical news to the definition of feminism which is the "belief in and advocacy for the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes"
which all the different waves of feminism specifically fought for

First-Wave Feminism (Late 19th to Early 20th Century)

Second-Wave Feminism (1960s to 1980s)

  • Workplace Equality: Outlawed gender-based employment discrimination through measures like the Equal Pay Act of 1963 and bans on sex-segregated job advertisements. 1, 2, 3]
  • Educational Protections: Prohibited sex discrimination in federally funded education programs via Title IX (1972). 1]
  • Reproductive Autonomy: Legalized abortion access through Roe v. Wade (1973) and gained legal access to oral contraceptives. 1, 2]
  • Financial Independence: Banned credit discrimination against women via the Equal Credit Opportunity Act of 1974. 1]
  • Protection from Abuse: Established domestic violence shelters, rape crisis centers, and legal recognition of marital rape and domestic abuse. 1, 2,

Third-Wave Feminism (1990s to 2010s)
Intersectionality and Diversity: Broadened the movement to embrace diverse identities, acknowledging how race, class, and sexuality intersect with gender (the concept coined by Kimberlé Crenshaw).
Workplace Harassment Protections: Brought systemic visibility and legal accountability to workplace sexual harassment, highlighted by cultural milestones like the Anita Hill hearings.
Individual and Sex-Positive Expression: Challenged rigid definitions of femininity, promoting bodily autonomy, individual empowerment, and personal expression. 1, 2, 3, , 6, 7]

Fourth-Wave Feminism (Mid-2010s to Present)
Digital Mobilization and Accountability: Leveraged social media platforms and viral movements like #MeToo to expose widespread sexual assault and hold powerful figures accountable.
Transgender and Inclusion Rights: Centered trans inclusivity, non-binary rights, and a global rejection of exclusionary or "white feminism".
Systemic and Structural Reform: Fought against continuous issues regarding systemic misogyny, rape culture, body shaming, and equal pay gaps globally. 1, 2, 3, 4,

Maybe sit this one out given you can't resist bending history to your own shape.

Anyone can Google mate, and "The Conversation" is hardly reputable feminist literature. As someone who has been reading first, second and third wave feminist works my whole life, I'm going to call BS on your google search opinion.

Northernlightsss · 24/09/2026 05:54

Rollingpinofdoom · 24/09/2026 05:30

But aren’t the government limiting social media use in children in part because of the fact children are being pressured and bullied into actions that are not for their benefit? I mean, grooming is a thing is it not? Are you saying everyone should have total bodily autonomy? Even if they wish to pursue paths that are not healthy?
should we allow anorexics to starve themselves because that is their choice?
ehat about people with BID? Should we allow them to have healthy limbs removed because it’s their body their choice?

That social pressures exist that can cause harm doesn't mean autonomous authenticity can't. Two things can be true at once hence Gillick competence becoming law. Trans adults often report being aware of their gender incongruence as a child which aligns with psychological research regarding early childhood awareness of identity. And trans identities existed long before social media & increasing social acceptance.

And gender dysphoria & body dysmorphia are two separate concepts where only one is considered a pathology. Gender dysphoria is distress from a mismatch between gender identity and assigned sex at birth, while body dysmorphia is an obsessive focus on a perceived flaw in physical appearance. Gender dysphoria comes from gender identity not matching your body. Body dysmorphia comes from a distorted mental image of a specific body part.

In other words one has a grounding in reality & the other doesn't.