Kenwood Ladies Pond Authoritarians

Ah yes, it's all about trans women, rather than trans people. Sure. Trans men don't exist. You don't have to make hating trans people your entire personality like the rollingpinofdoom one.

No one said that. Try reading what is actually said.

Yes, victims of assaults by woman are definitely less worthy of support than victims of your particular penchant.

Assault by a man is not necessarily worse than a woman dear, just far far far far far more likely.

Regardless of whether said man (in the original sex based sense obviously) happens to identify as a man or not.

The behaviour aligns with the sex you see, not the "gender".

Hey, plenty of people are more than happy with establishments that are unwelcoming to people who don't share their tolerance for sexism. It doesn't make sexism actually right though.

And of course, breaking the laws that exist to give women a fair shot at participating in society without being reduced to sexist stereotypes because you happen to have a few blokes who like the sexist stereotypes thank you very much is never going to be a good look even if as you helpfully point out sometimes the sexism is set up to cater for people who really do enjoy it.

But trans women are biological men so why would I think there is a difference? And men commit 99% of all SA and 100% of all rapes so……

It was a clear and simple question.

Aren't you going to answer it?

I suppose if you go through life thinking an assault by a man is somehow worse than one by a woman by virtue of their sex, then really definitions are the least of your worries. But then again you do seem to think that assaults by trans women are worse than by biological men for some reason.

Oh,issues like being threatened and assaulted by men? Good idea. Now, first we’d need to decide what a man was? Any idea? I think it’s an adult human male. What’s your take?

'Belittling and offensive'? Just not to the overwhelming majority of users of this particular service who have been happy to include trans people for decades.

There are consequences. The management know this.

The management have said they are going to have to spend money changing the women’s facilities (only 10 years old and a big operation to install) to increase individual privacy. This has economic, space, environmental, health and safety implications.

Making sure a cubicle is well aired to prevent damp, the floor is easily mopped, the cubicle isn’t misused and the occupant(s) are able to seen/heard in an emergency will be things a risk assessment picks up, if they do one, now they want an official change of use.

The toilets, for instance, will have to be enclosed, in separate rooms, with the sink and dryer in with the toilet. In unisex toilets the turnover will be slower so the excepted calculations are you need 25% extra units for a comparable turnover to single sex cubicles within a washroom. Or you have less toilets and bigger queues.

These are the realities of the decision to change the space to mixed sex.

Any deviations in design are against building regulations.

No one is suggesting banning trans people 🙄

It is being suggested that

1. it's not unreasonable to have a single sex provision made for women (in the original female sense) who don't feel any particular alignment fo whatever it is trans identifying male people feel, but do feel alignment to the half of humanity that is female, and
2. Should a provider disagree and decline to provide a female-only facility that is fine as well, but that provider should not then be claiming they offer a woman-only service. Because that is belittling and offensive to the female half of humanity who inconveniently do continue to matter as well.

The users of the pond vote and decide. Oh look, they did. It didn't go your way. The ponds remain trans inclusive and Venice Allen's histrionic screaming fit about it changed nothing. Perhaps she could lend her voice to dealing with real issues facing women rather than banning trans people from using the ladies' pond.

So what is another option? I know, men keep out of female spaces even if they claim they feel like women.

Famously the only two options. You're not helping the cause here.

You absolutely can.

I know I was quite shocked by the screaming by a so-called Gender Critical leader in an effort to shut down a meeting that she didn't like. Very bizarre behaviour. Reflects badly on those of us with sensible views.

of course, women should give up their women’s spaces, accept sexual harassment, and keep quiet about it…

why did no-one else think of that?!

Wow.

@alcovecupboards
I think you will find it’s the TRAs who are the histrionic screamers, not the GC.

Or perhaps the overwhelming majority of the ponds' users and their management should be allowed to continue as they see fit. Rather than bowing to the histrionic screaming campaign that makes all GC people look utterly batshit.

There are at least three of the wood fired or other saunas that have started over the last three or four years that have dedicated trans sauna sessions. Sessions where they offend nobody or fear they may be targeted.

Maybe there should be the same for the ponds swimming, in the mixed pond.

Yes. It's a powerplay. Involving a man with a gender identity seeing himself as infinitely more important and powerful than the women he is imposing himself on.

When there is a perfectly acceptable mixed sex pond then trans identifying men using the women's pond is simply about validation, psychologically damaged individuals preening themselves and enjoying making women uncomfortable and resentful. They are simply putting their finger up to the entire female sex that they claim they are a member of. How screwed up is that?

Unfortunately, until we women learn to react as a group and say fuck off rather than being embarrassed or timid it won't change. Under certain circumstances it can be done. I have only one example of my own experience a couple of years ago - being in a changing room with half a dozen other women when this "woman" came in and stood there staring at us. A couple of us were undressed. We pointed out that they were in the wrong changing room and they did the old "I am a woman" nonsense. We shouted get out and all six of us crowded round him and marched him, not too gently, to the door and into the corridor. Job done. We then explained what had happened to reception in case he complained and why we had done what we had. We were afraid we would get into trouble for "assault". To their credit one of the two receptionists said: "Oh dear, we didn't see that" followed by a wink.

I'm not sure why you are responding to me, the person I quoted (the one who said trans identified women are not going into women's spaces) was not you.

Frankly I think we need to criticise any trans person who knowingly uses a space designated for the opposite sex. They are doing the wrong thing (no I don't think it is ok for trans identified women to use the men's bathroom even if they don't pose a threat)