Luke Tryl from More in common frames support for women's right as socially conservative

Oh yes, see the OP on another thread complaining at length about how badly done by 'trans people' are, but only ever backing that with reference to the habits and actions of transwomen.

Invitations to consider transmen were pointedly, and repeatedly, ignored.

Quite.

They are in fact enacting a very very binary belief on who does and does not matter, entirely based on biological sex.

While boring on forever about there being no such thing as sex, no one knows, no one can tell, yada yada yada, all of which is deployed to enforce male supremacism over women. Denial. Not just a river in Egypt.

The thing the 2 sides agree on is that female humans aren't actually people.

They both know males are people, but disagree on whether some of them are women.

<looks at new helicopter just coming in to land>

<looks at empty vault>
< slips away unnoticed>

I understood the Theresa May comment too but it took me ages to figure out that Xian was Christian.

When actually the loaded language he did use showed bias towards GI/AD

He was implying that there was some sort of interesting shift happening so he belatedly claimed that was what he was talking about.

Hyper individualism makes sense to me if he means that both are concerned with the right of the individual to do what they want without restriction.

You could also argue that American gun laws are motivated by hyper individualism.

It's all very well if you are leaving the old country and heading out west to claim some land in the wildnerness, (ignoring whether anyone else already lives there...), but it falls apart a bit when you have to consider other people.

He was trying to link up the assisted suicide and gender identity campaigns as being “hyper individualistic” which didn’t really gel with what he was saying about social conservativism and “progressive” which are both loaded terms

what does 'hyperindividualism' mean?

Thinking for oneself (?bad?) or insisting everyone has to have a gender (?good?).

Yes, I see on Twitter that when challenged Tryl walked back his comment a bit and made an unconvincing explanation that he was trying to capture a backlash to “hyperindividualism” and used the term “socially conservative” as meaning the status quo.

Some of these people seem unable to imagine that individual women work out their positions and beliefs on subjects (including their own rights and freedoms) from first principles, without a controlling organisation telling them what to think.

It speaks volumes for their own thought processes, or lack thereof.

They also often don't know what the left vs right wing political divide is, They only know the societal aspects of the omnicause.

Absolutely. And because it’s a Labour gov who aren’t giving them everything they want now, the refrain from TRAs is that even Theresa May is more progressive than Starmer and Burnham. It’s quite common to read on Reddit.

However it was an interesting period.

Left wing feminists like Rosa Freedman were trying to point out the problems with self ID, but I think the Tories were instinctively resistant to hearing their voices.

It was around this time that Philip Davies was elected to the equalities committee because he thought women's rights had gone too far and Dominic Raab made a big thing about not being a feminist when he ran for the leadership in 2019.

I think May and Mordaunt and Miller wanted to be seen as socially liberal in a fun David Cameron way, but believed it would be politically toxic for them to engage with women's rights.

Yes, but what’s the relevance to this thread specifically? May thought self ID was an easy win for her “progressive” credentials as a Tory. The public disagreed and have been continuing to do so increasingly harder ever since. It’s not because of her involvement that people aren’t convinced, it’s because it’s ridiculous and harmful.

Aye.

We can be fucked over by people who agree women are female but don't care about female people, or we can be fucked over by people who don't agree women are female but also don't care about female people.

The option for female people to not be fucked over, or at least the option for political voice and activism in our own right as female people to fight being fucked over, is apparently not on the table.

So-called "Progressives": we'll support you on certain things linked to your biology as long as we never have to acknowledge your biology or how your biology affects things for you in wider ways than just abortions, birth control and sexual double standards.

What a time to be alive.

No. I did too, but I've been in this fight for a lot longer than many and know its history. It was May's decision in 2107 to back the reform of the GRA which first got me involved and the rest followed.

And to those we are familiar with if they post nonsense.

Lots of people cling to their youthful passions - even as they age. Look at Jeremy Corbyn; he's not changed his tune since the 1960s - and sees this as a virtue. See Billy Bragg for reference too. Their whole identity revolves around their politcal allegiance; and even though 'trans' wasn't a thing when Bragg was in his prime in the 1980s - he's absorbed it because that is where the youth ( mostly Millennials, I suggest) have taken it. Same for Corbyn. They see it as a way to nurture and encourage a younger generation and they think it keeps them young and 'current' themselves.

Funnily enough it was Brendan Cox that led me to the Feminism and Women's Rights board on Mumsnet where I encountered the trans madness.

I was ten years and three children into parenting and had been on Mumsnet occasionally for parenting related stuff.

I heard about the allegations against Brendan Cox and was so disappointed that a man so widely considered a good guy turned out not to be. I felt so sad and sickened for Jo Cox. It reawakened my feminism which had been somewhat dormant in the early parenting years.

I found the feminists on Mumsnet as I thought they must have something to say about Cox. There were threads about Cox, but there were also threads about Maria McLaughlin and Bruce/Caitlin wotsit and Pips Bunce. I learned what a TERF is and, to my surprise, found within about ten minutes of reading that I am one.

The rest is history and all that.

It’s all right @teawamutu @Boiledbeetlehas been investing that money for us for years and assures me she is getting an excellent return. I am looking forward with confidence to getting my kitchen done and having a swimming pool put in.

Absolute confidence…

A much more honest framing.

Incidentally, for this thread's resident TRA warning women about <checks notes> standing up for sex-rights leading inevitably to Gilead - I wish the shadowy hard right funding would hurry up. I've been terfing at my own expense for years, it's cost me a fortune.

In the comments Luke does get challenged on calling the policies socially conservative and he does back track and reframe a bit to - losses for the consensus of the liberal elite.

Yeah, argument by analogy has its limits.

At the moment the “Christian right” in the UK is protecting the bane of all authoritarian movements, free speech.

We are at a point where “right wing” or “far right” is failing as a thought stopping cliche because the left have overplayed it. It just is not far right to insist on clear reality based definitions.

I don’t think Christianity is a wolf in sheep’s clothing - it’s a divided house but that has always been the nature of all religions.

The only wolf is the left and their not in sheep's clothing but woman's and they also claim to be women but we can all see that they are male wolves now but nice try