Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

Do you genuinely not see the connection between "dead name" and "trans widow"? Why are trans people allowed to express the break with their past in terms of death, but not the people who shared those old lives with them? Wow. You really do see trans people as higher value than anyone else, don't you?

Language evolves, yes, but it can also be
forced to change as an act of control.

Native languages stamped out by colonisers. People's own names for the places they live, for themselves and their people, erased.

"Trivial"?

Even you, when you try to control the names that women who lose their husband to a transition chose to call themselves. "Trivial", yet at the same time you cannot bear to allow that language to evolve.

So I'll ask again. And given that you spent some time on another thread arguing for the importance of language when you didn't like what was being said but found you could only take exception to how it was said:

Why do you think the female half of humanity is less deserving of a name that means all of us but only us than people who have slightly different shades of ginger hair, or come from different sides of the Mersey?

Do you truly value women so little you can't imagine why anyone would ever need to speak to us or of us, or that we might want speak about ourselves and the reality of being female?

Why do you value us so little that you see no need to connect us to our history and each other? Do you think we have achieved such social, political and economic parity with men that not only do we no longer need Feminism, we don't even need the words in which it could be written?

Or do you, as I think is more likely, not think about it at all? Do you assume we all know really what a woman is so why does it matter if we play along and pretend a few men are "women" too even if that only makes sense in a world where we agree the defining differences between men and women are mental?

Either way, I pity you.

(Also, thank you so much for your considered use of words like "caterwauling", "stamping", and "gripes". This post will come in handy next time someone tries to claim the high ground by claiming Gender Critical Feminist posters on FWR are nasty, agressive or rude.)

Of course it's trivial! Language evolves and has done since the dawn of the spoken word. It will continue to evolve despite the stamping and caterwauling of people with specific gripes. And also - this is just another level of hypocrisy. Unless of course you demand 'clear language' from those horrifyingly offensive women who call themselves 'trans widows'. As an actual widow - that is offensive and I judge them harshly. I don't demand they stop calling themselves that though.

Of course it's trivial! Language evolves and has done since the dawn of the spoken word. It will continue to evolve despite the stamping and caterwauling of people with specific gripes. And also - this is just another level of hypocrisy. Unless of course you demand 'clear language' from those horrifyingly offensive women who call themselves 'trans widows'. As an actual widow - that is offensive and I judge them harshly. I don't demand they stop calling themselves that though.

I think you have misunderstood the point of the OP's post.

That said, the importance of the female half of humanity having clear language that refers only to us is not some trivial "hill to die on"

Bizarre, and also so so sad, that you think it could be.

Oh joyous day, an opportunity to shoehorn in my favourite pun....

And if they smoked weed on e-bikes they'd be Lesbian Dopeheads on Mopeds!

It's even totally on topic... LDOM were men claiming to be lesbians for their own fun and benefit 😂

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaye_Bykers_on_Acid

Fair points to a degree, but I'd argue that a larger point may be that the EA is supposed to apply to everyone and therefore should be clear and easily understood.

It shouldnt require teams of lawyers to pontificate on everyday life matters, and a law shouldn't be so cumbersome and complex that people are at risk of falling foul of it inadvertently with incredibly minor acts.

So far, it seems to me to be failing that test very thoroughly. That probably goes for everyone on all sides.

I'm increasingly suspecting that the name of the group was chosen mainly because dyke rhymes with hike.

If it were a cycling group they'd be dykes on bikes.

And yet they were welcomed in by this large group. Meanwhile the biological sex only group can barely find five pensioners to go for a walk with them. Of all the battles facing us - this is your hill to die on? Bizarre.

Do you buy lavender biscuits or have you made them yourself? I imagine shortbread with lavender would be nice.

Oh dear… maybe chamomile would be better for you. Tea does have caffeine in it which does make some people a bit excitable and tetchy. And a nice lavender biscuit.

And yet they were welcomed in by this large group. Meanwhile the biological sex only group can barely find five pensioners to go for a walk with them. Of all the battles facing us - this is your hill to die on? Bizarre.

I'm literally having a nice cup of tea now, thanks. I recommend Betty's - the far superior bag. Are you feeling OK? I know you've been struggling for some time with your own aggressive tendencies. Have you spoken to someone in real life about it? Perhaps go for a nice walk and find a more wholesome hobby? Maybe hiking. There's a great group you could join and learn to co-exist with all kinds of people nicely.

Crikey, you’re quite het up about this aren’t you?

I still think it’s reasonable to reflect on going to an event titled ‘Dykes who hike’ or similar and finding men there. Even if what you’re thinking is ‘I note that in the description the organisers have explicitly said men are welcome and yet this contradicts my understanding of the name of the event’. That is still interesting in and of itself

Chill dude! You seem very het up. Have a nice cup of tea and moment.

Two het ups In two posts!

I wonder if we hail from the same part of the world?

One - they can do - they don't want to exclude trans and nonbinary people. So they don't have to. What safety reasons? These are public trails. Do you think they can ban men from public areas? There are single sex hiking groups - you can also create one yourself. You cannot demand an inclusive group ban some of their members because you don't think they should be allowed to attend. It's batshit and it makes GC people look batshit to so cut it out.

One - they can do - they don't want to exclude trans and nonbinary people. So they don't have to. What safety reasons? These are public trails. Do you think they can ban men from public areas? There are single sex hiking groups - you can also create one yourself. You cannot demand an inclusive group ban some of their members because you don't think they should be allowed to attend. It's batshit and it makes GC people look batshit to so cut it out.

Why couldn’t they provide a women only service? It would be perfectly reasonable for safety reasons etc to provide a woman only hike in the same way women only bike rides are provided.

I think it could be considered a service to facilitate meeting others.

Two men in a couple have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with 'lesbian' or 'women'.

Four men in a polycule, ditto.

I mean you can keep adding men who try to use the words to apply to themselves for infinity and there will still be no women or lesbians involved.

Did you read the OP? I thought it was thoughtful and reflective

the fact is that if you go to an event that is named in a way that makes you think it will be women only and find men there, it is reasonable to have a think about that

If there were two trans women in a couple with each other, then they fall under both lgbtq and wlw - so they would be pretty firmly covered by that title.