Reflections on trans presence at a Dykes Who Hike event

If it was labelled a Duyke Hike' then it is not clearly a mixed sex group, is it? Was the potential presence of males included in the small print?

The only butch lesbian I referred to in my post was me.

Most people can distinguish men from women in the majority of cases at a glance. It’s a remarkably ordinary thing that people, even young children, can do. And as I said above, passing is neither here nor there.

If it was labelled a Duyke Hike' then it is not clearly a mixed sex group, is it? Was the potential presence of males included in the small print?

'Gender identity' is irrelevent to one's sex.

I havent made any point about single sex environments. The point I have made is that the GC OP seems odd for turning up to a clearly labelled trans inclusive event and then spying on the members to speculate on how they interact with each other.

Are you in America? Which 'women only' venues do you know of in the U.K?

Men don't really like women at their venues, but women are expected to love having men in theirs?

How do you know the gender identity of other people who you think are butch lesbians?

Gay men don't particularly like them in their venues either.

I know a lesbian bar where this article is printed in the toilets.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/a-guide-for-straight-women-at-gay-bars-by-a-queer-woman/

Found this while looking for it:

https://www.the-londoner.co.uk/who-let-the-straights-in/

No, what I saw was women who didn’t know one another before introducing themselves, and then making friends and getting along jovially.

We were together for around eight hours, which is a good while to observe ime.

Re “how did I know there weren’t other TM/Ws, they didn’t have a badge on” - all the usual answers you’ll know and love. Most people don’t pass, in either direction, but passing isn’t really the point here. I won’t think a TW is a woman even if she passes. I’m a butch lesbian who inadvertently “passes” a few times a week - I’m still not a bloke.

And a bloke who turns up in men’s clothing and tries to get everyone’s attention in a slightly risqué way isn’t living his best dyke life, imo.

'Disgust of trans women' is a straw man.

People are trying to ascertain what the rules are wrt this group and discussing the dynamics of the group - how dynamics seem to change when males are around.

I'm not disgusted by men and i doubt many if any other posters are.

Its possible to discuss the fact that they are different from women without being disgusted by them.

You've made your point, repeatedly - that women shouldn't be able to have anything for ourselves without males, and you believe that wanting to = hate/disgust of trans women.

We understand that there is a bio women only hiking group - its existing is not the ppint. Posters are interested in the dynamics and social pressures on women wrt these groups, and the re purposing of words that used to mean women only.

'Trans people' are either male or female no matter how they 'identify', not a distinct or separate category of human being that exists outwith that binary.

I suggest most young lesbians have grown accustomed to only socialising in mixed sex groups because the whole scene has been 'queered' and now doesn't recognise, or permit, true 'women only' spaces. Women have been told they are exclusionary or 'unkind' for wanting stuff for themselves.

There are few/if any women only gay bars or venues around anymore. Though gay men still seem to make sure they keep male only spaces/saunas/venues/crusing spots all to themselves.

This is a generational trend, but I suggest that slowly women will/and are returning to the recognition of the value of female only spaces, venues and categories. After all, human - male nature doesn't change - no matter how you try to pretend it is invisible.

Straight women tend to hang around with gay men in gay bars which are predomdinantly male .There are so few 'women only' or lesbian bars anymore I cannot see this happening.

Which/where lesbian bars is it in which you frequently see lots of straight women? There are no women only venues in most places these days.

So you think every single women's event a young person has attended has included the presence of trans people?

They don't want events that don't include trans people. It's as simple as that. They arent interested and don't share your views. That is why the GC group has no attendees. Nobody wants to be around people with those views.

Yes I am. I don't believe TWAW, but because of my interactions with GC people in this group including seeing how far they reach to justify what is essentially just a disgust of trans women, I'd never attend any event that explicity excludes trans women in fear it is populated by irrational people like the ones in here.

Yes I am. I don't believe TWAW, but because of my interactions with GC people in this group including seeing how far they reach to justify what is essentially just a disgust of trans women, I'd never attend any event that explicity excludes trans women in fear it is populated by irrational people like the ones in here.

No by being domineering, obnoxious snd offensive. Such as going to a lesbian bar and getting offended when women hit on them.

I’d add, there’s an almost standard “TWAW” subheader at a lot of lesbian events in London aimed (explicitly or implicitly) at younger women. I think it would be very difficult for these organisers or any attendees to stray from that or question it, because that’s very much the water they swim in and the assumption is that they’d be cancelled (are we still cancelling people?) if they came out with “women only”. From actually going to these things though, you see women going off together and TW excluded socially in the manner of a high school disco.

And of course it’s not for me to see into the organisers’ souls and discern their views on trans rights. Though at the end of hike drinks they were having a lovely time with their 20-something female pals and the few TIMs remaining were once again in their own group.

Lol. You claimed in one of the first of your dozens of posts on here to be GC. What does that mean to you, exactly? Given you're equating a single sex club with apartheid?

And logic on sexual orientation doesn't work. You don't have to include all men in your dating pool to be straight. But you don't exclude anyone because they are male, do you? That's the difference. * *

Why go through the pretence of calling it a Dyke hike' then?

We both know the reason is to score political points and to insert the idea that some men are also lesbians. If you simply want an 'inclusive' hike, why not name and advertise it clearly?

I think this is a generational thing. Millennials ( those born between around 1981 - 1996) have been inculcated into gender ideology and don't really know what true women only spaces and events are. They have little choice in their social circles. The whole gay scene has been well and truly 'queered'. Lesbians have had to socialise in 'queer spaces' which are mixed sex.

However, we are now starting to see a return to women seeking true women only spaces and events. More and more women only gyms; women only sessions at swimming and in saunas.Male pattern behaviours don't change and with age and experience women realise this and they want and require spaces away from men.

OP - the list of identities would appear to allow for gay men (queer) - did any happen to choose to join?

@FlirtsWithRhinos no. Which again is interesting. The demographic split seemed very much “130 outdoorsy lesbians in their 20s - 40s” and then this minority male lot. And no TIFs that I could see.