Another BBC mess: "Do you think it’s right to tell transgender people which toilet to use?" Let's ask some men...

I really don't think that is what you meant when you made the original post. If it was, that post was spectacularly poorly written, not to mention that your follow up post claiming that even if genuine Gender Critical Feminists would welcome debate there were some fake GC people who would not be happy to share with a TRA makes no sense at all if you were in fact always talking about the programme, panel or event simply not being able to happen at all.

I don’t think this I know it does make a difference. If it didn’t I surely would expect to be misgendered in every interaction?

No, the 'problem' is not solved. Most sexual assaults take place in unisex toilets and changing rooms. Women need sex segregated spaces when they are partially undressed. It's not rocket science to know or provide that - we always used to up till about 5 minutes ago. Back track, sharpish, from this nonsense.

I know, right? It's almost funny.

What woman doesn't understand viscerally and immediately exactly why other women have not challenged a bloke appearing in a confined space with them unexpectedly?

Fucking hell. Imagine genuinely believing that women will always happily challenge men when we are angry at them or threatened by them, and therefore lack of direct challenge can be taken as consent.

Imagine never having experienced that horrible feeling of powerlessness in the pit of your stomach as you make a your face into a greasy half-smile at the man who "just wants to talk", "just wants a hug", "just making a joke, God you women have no sense of humour", "just wants to suggest what you really meant to say was..." because you know if you challenge him directly he'll turn it on you for being irrational, oversensitive, a bitch, stuck up, misunderstanding his poor innocent genuine friendliness... and he'll go on at you even longer just to make his point.

You have no idea how women have to live in this world.

'Blending in' means 'stealthing'. At very best, what you are proposing, is by nature mendacious deception.

A man, of course.

oh. Gail.

I look forward to the extensive list.

Well. Let’s see…

They became male people who took chemicals that developed breasts, redistributed some fat. Isn’t that the aim?

If you and others genuinely think this makes a male person ‘female’ in any way. You and they are wrong and have an immensely sexist view of female people.

If you also think that disguises male body cues, you are also mistaken and perhaps needed to do some very thorough research outside a small group of affirming people.

Not one bit of investment in extreme body modification gives any male person the reward of access to female single sex provisions. Those provisions were never based on someone’s appearance when they are male people over the age of about 8 years old.

What does a ‘TIM’ look like?

Do you not realise that knowing there are men out there who have weird ideas about the difference between men and women being in our minds rather than our bodies, who want to be in our spaces and even perhaps our most intimate medical care, who know they are not supposed to be there but nevertheless are happy to sneak in by stealth, is itself a source of fear, worry and helpless anger?

For women, who spend so much of our lives dealing with male entitlement to our bodies, our labour, our support and our attention, "if she doesn't know it doesn't count" is not an ok stance for a man to take.

IME it makes men look like trans-identified males. That's the extent of it, I'm afraid.

Pray tell what are these hormone driven differences in appearance?

So you’re saying hormone therapy had no effect at all?

I think some people confuse fear and politeness with passing.

Extreme body modifications don’t make you a female person. Those modifications don’t mean you will not be correctly identified as a male person by female people.

If anyone had told you any differently, they have not told you the truth.

Breasts don’t make a male person female. Moobs are very common.

What else? Fat redistribution? That doesn’t disguise a male person’s sex category. Nor does ‘soft skin’.

there are plenty of male people who have been reported as having had their puberty blocked and been on estrogen. They still are clearly identifiable as being male people. Even with facial surgery.

I would be uncomfortable seeing Ty in the women's toilets as I know he merrily crosses boundaries, and I don't know how many, where and when.

I very much doubt he hasn't been clocked already, and people haven't just left.

Assuming he's in the UK, he could try obeying the law.

An admirable issue to campaign on. It's just a pity that the GLP's pitiful success rate means that this will be almost certainly yet another instance of them raising funds from people who really can't afford to give much without actually winning a case.

I don’t believe that Ty has quite understood how fucking sexist that approach that Ty is advocating is. But also the parallels associated with predatory and abusive male behaviour of dismissing and ignoring female lack or withdrawal of consent.

’I am not the person to be concerned about’, ‘I am completely harmless’, ‘I am one of the good ones, trust me’, ‘just blend in and no one will notice’…. We have heard it all before.

Why did you think I’m referring to beauty standards at all? It’s a bit weird to assume that. I was talking about hormone driven differences in appearance

Indeed.

considering how little the BBC end up actioning these assurances of upholding impartiality policies etc anyway, I predict that there will be no noticeable change in any case.

But surely the best way to not make anyone worry would be use the sex appropriate facilities no? Any thoughts on a benefit for women of making all their spaces mixed sex yet?

I'm sure you don't, because like most men, however they identify, you don't really see women as equal to you. That old male entitlement really doesn't come out in the wash.

So how should a woman look? Please do be specific. Are you trying to impose outdated beauty standards on women? How sexist!!!

Or the presenters themselves will take up that argument.

Which is exactly what should happen in an interview by a professional journalist, whatever their personal politics and beliefs. The BBC could have saved us all a lot of time, money, grief and trauma if they had acted professionally in their interviews and reports from the start.