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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Healthiest and Unhealthiest relationships in songs?

388 replies

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 09:59

As I was cleaning the house this morning I was musing on those songs that come on the radio that you've been singing along with for years where you suddenly actually listen to the lyrics and either think 'well you sound very sensible' or 'intervention. NOW'. Any one got any suggestions? The ones I came up with first were

Healthy - Respect by Aretha Franklin. I know it's a cliche, and the guy she's singing about sounds like borderline not a keeper frankly, but I love the line 'I ain't gonna do you wrong, cause I don't want to'. She's all in, but she's still telling him how she expects to be treated

Red buntingtastic - Never Gonna Give You Up - why wouldn't she get a full commitment from any other guy Rick, you gaslighting bastard?

Anyone else fancy whiling away some weekend time thinking up some examples?

(mumsnet's AI suggested a thread title of 'Songs that sound sensible or alarming once you really hear the lyrics' which I kind of love but decided not to go with!)

OP posts:
CrossPurposes · 12/09/2026 12:07

Gribouille · 12/09/2026 11:19

If ever I feel my blood pressure isn't high enough, I just have to think of Burt Bacharach's 'Wives and Lovers' and be glad it's no longer 1963... 🤬🤮

Hey, little girl
Comb your hair, fix your make-up
Soon he will open the door
Don't think because
There's a ring on your finger
You needn't try any more

For wives should always be lovers, too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
I'm warning you

Day after day
There are girls at the office
And men will always be men
Don't send him off
With your hair still in curlers
You may not see him again

For wives should always be lovers, too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
He's almost here

Hey, little girl
Better wear something pretty
Something you'd wear to go to the city
And dim all the lights
Pour the wine, start the music
Time to get ready for love

Oh, time to get ready
Time to get ready
Time to get ready
For love

Words by Hal David. Don't just blame Burt!

CrossPurposes · 12/09/2026 12:05

anewstartin2026 · 12/09/2026 10:37

Yes, co-written by Carole King and, perhaps unsurprisingly, produced by Phil Spector. The song was apparently inspired by King’s babysitter telling them about being abused by her boyfriend - uuurgh.

Not that it really makes the difference considering the background of the song but Carole King wrote the music for Goffin & King and it was Gerry Goffin who was the lyricist.

Comtesse · 12/09/2026 12:05

Peter Sarstedt “where do you go to (my lovely)”. My god that’s a creepy song: you had a terrible start in life but now you’re all fancy, I’m the only one who understands you and don’t think you can get away. Awful!

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 12:03

UnaOfStormhold · 12/09/2026 11:58

Pink Martini have a lovely pair of songs "And now I'm back" "And then you're gone" where a sleazy guy tries to sneak back and gets told where to go in true relationships board style.

oh my god, this is great. what a performance!

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BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 12:01

On the positive side, how could I forget the lovely Proclaimers (props for introducing me to 'haver' too)

When I'm workin', yes I know I'm gonna be
I'm gonna be the man who's workin' hard for you
And when the money comes in for the work I do
I'll pass almost every penny on to you
When I come home (When I come home), oh, I know I'm gonna be
I'm gonna be the man who comes back home to you
And if I grow old, well, I know I'm gonna be
I'm gonna be the man who's growin' old with you

awww

and in the negative column I give you Mr Nuno Bettencourt

There's a hole in my heart
That can only be filled by you
Should have known from the start
I'd fall short with the things I do

I mean, if you're sad Nuno, I can only suggest that in your next relationship you make the effort not to fall short with the things you do before she gets fed up enough to dump you

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CrossPurposes · 12/09/2026 11:58

MarieDeGournay · 12/09/2026 10:24

Funny you should mention that, OP - I recently heard one of the Beatles' old hits, from 1963, She Loves You [Yeah Yeah Yeah] and I was thinking how nice it was - two teenage lads talking about a girl.

(I think all pop-y pop songs are about teenagers, even if written by OAPs - so Itchycoo Park is OK, he's a teenager too, he has a day off from work, teenagers worked in the 1960s, and he wants his teenage girlfriend to bunk off school, nothing sinister, that's my reading of itSmile)

Back to the Beatles: Lad #1 says that he met up with lad #2's ex, and they had a good talk, and the girl is prepared to give lad #2 another chance, but he has to acknowledge that he behaved badly and hurt her.

Lad #1 tells him that he's lucky to have a girlfriend like that, and to be given a second chance, because she really loves lad #2, and that's not a given, so he really should apologise to her and patch things up, because she loves him yeah yeah yeah..

I think that's a really nice respectful conversation between two lads about a girl.

Better than Smack my Bitch Up, for sure😒

Talking of The Beatles, "Run for your life" is lyrically dubious:

You'd better run for your life if you can, little girl,
Hide your head in the sand, little girl,
Catch you with another man,
That's the end, little girl.

Let this be a sermon,
I mean everything I said,
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

(Thanks, John!)

UnaOfStormhold · 12/09/2026 11:58

Pink Martini have a lovely pair of songs "And now I'm back" "And then you're gone" where a sleazy guy tries to sneak back and gets told where to go in true relationships board style.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QooqnhfVSQU

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:55

Comtesse · 12/09/2026 11:48

I have a real problem with Billy Joel’s song “I like you just the way you are”. I know it’s supposed to be sweet, but the idea if any man telling me not to change, keep my hair the same, and as for not wanting clever conversation…. Ugh shudder! Sounds like I’ll dump you if you get old.

yes, and written for the woman he left to marry Christie Brinkley I believe.

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BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:54

MarieDeGournay · 12/09/2026 11:50

Oh dear, you didn't read the room, did you Gizzasec?😟

This is typical about how songs affect us, it's irrational, isn't it: I can see all the points you made, they are all very valid and relevant....but ... that song..💔

I think it makes me emotional when I hear it because it makes me think of how I wasn't the right person for my ex-es, I didn't say or do little things I could have done so I feel regretful and retrospectively apologetic to them when I hear that song.

someone pointed out on Radcliffe & Maconie that the Pet Shop boys cover is amazing because Neil Tenants voice makes it sound completely insincere!

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BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:52

CraftyOldBat · 12/09/2026 11:42

jeez louise. the song lyrics referenced in that article are mad. I mean I don't listen to Rod Stewart because I mainly thinks his music sucks, but I'll be not listening to him twice as hard now

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MarieDeGournay · 12/09/2026 11:50

Oh dear, you didn't read the room, did you Gizzasec?😟

This is typical about how songs affect us, it's irrational, isn't it: I can see all the points you made, they are all very valid and relevant....but ... that song..💔

I think it makes me emotional when I hear it because it makes me think of how I wasn't the right person for my ex-es, I didn't say or do little things I could have done so I feel regretful and retrospectively apologetic to them when I hear that song.

Comtesse · 12/09/2026 11:48

I have a real problem with Billy Joel’s song “I like you just the way you are”. I know it’s supposed to be sweet, but the idea if any man telling me not to change, keep my hair the same, and as for not wanting clever conversation…. Ugh shudder! Sounds like I’ll dump you if you get old.

Uricon2 · 12/09/2026 11:45

Another vote for Elvis Costello 'I Want You', although I love it and know it is deliberately psychocreepy.

@MarieDeGournay thank you for your great analysis of 'She Loves You'. I don't think I'd ever properly understood what it's about before, although it came out when I was a baby and my very first words were a sung " Yeah Yeah Yeah"!

SerendipityCat · 12/09/2026 11:45

The masochistic relationship in The Velvet Underground's "Venus in Furs" makes for uneasy listening (unless your tastes happen to run in that direction, I suppose) -

Kiss the boot of shiny, shiny leather
Shiny leather in the dark
Tongue of thongs, the belt that does await you
Strike, dear mistress, and cure his heart

Severin, Severin, speak so slightly
Severin, down on your bended knee
Taste the whip, in love not given lightly
Taste the whip, now bleed for me

And of course, we have the always-provocative "Under My Thumb" by the Rolling Stones. Is Mick Jagger really just being satirical, or is it just horribly misogynistic?

Under my thumb
Is a squirming dog who's just had her day
Under my thumb
A girl who has just changed her ways

It's down to me, yes it is
The way she does just what she's told, down to me
The change has come, she's under my thumb
Ah, ah, say, "it's alright"

CraftyOldBat · 12/09/2026 11:42

Rod Stewart -
https://share.google/CQDRyxaHbBchtaX7W

Gizzasec · 12/09/2026 11:41

I once tried to do a comedy routine based on Elvis singing Always On My Mind.

Maybe I didn't treat you
Quite as good as I should have
(oh, right?)
Maybe I didn't love you
Quite as often as I could have
(what, you withheld physical affection?)
Little things I should have said and done
I just never took the time
(what little things? Let me guess - the washing-up? Hoovering? Laundry? Cooking?)

And maybe I didn't hold you
All those lonely, lonely times
(Elvis, you're a proper cold asshole, aren't you?)
And I guess I never told you
I'm so happy that you're mine
(why the fuck not??)
If I made you feel second-best
(Mate, there's no "if" about it)
Girl, I'm sorry I was blind
(bit fuckin' late now, innit?)

You were always on my mind
You were always on my mind
(oh well THAT'S alright then! Thank fuck for that. You're an emotionally inadequate fuckwit who does sod all around the house, you let your missus go unhugged, unloved, and you couldn't even open your gob to say sorry all that time. But it's ok - because she was ON YOUR MIND.)

It went down like a cup of cold sick. People love that song. It doesn't matter all the stuff he's done/not done. It's a man saying sorry, and that's enough, apparently.

MarieDeGournay · 12/09/2026 11:40

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:35

I've always thought that Different Drum (sung with an outstanding vocal by Linda Ronstadt) feels different when you know it was written by a man (Mike Nesmith of the Monkees, fact fans)

So, don't get me wrong, it's not that I knock it
It's just that I am not in the market
For a boy who wants to love only me
Yes, and I ain't sayin' you ain't pretty
All I'm saying's I'm not ready for any person
Place or thing to try and pull the reins in on me

I guess at least he's being honest, but likely after they've shagged I'd guess

Oh wow yes! I love love love that song, and a woman singing it makes it very different,. Thanks for the reminder.
You are doing a great job this morning, BBM, you have us all humming and reminiscing and fuming and looking misty-eyed and having a great time😃

KindlySurfiingPlatypus · 12/09/2026 11:39

FlirtsWithRhinos · 12/09/2026 11:04

I was just thinking aboit Meatloaf and where his songs fit!

Two out of three ain't bad - healthy or unhealthy? He doesn't love her but he's honest and seems to want to be with her...

Dead Ringer For Love - i was a bit worried she's using him to piss off her father

@BernardBlacksMolluscs if you are only just discovering Magnetic Fields you are in for such a treat! Plenty of songs for the unhealthy list as well ... Stephin Merritt is an amazing lyricist. Can say the most complex things with the simplest words.

Healthy again - Papa was a Rodeo . Magnetic Fields again. I'm not posting the lyrics because I don't want to spoil the song's journey for a first time listener!

I was thinking about Meatloaf too when trying to think of positive relationships. I know this one has been released by others too (including Celine Dione) but I like the duet he did with Marion Ravn which is makes it seem to be all about a middle-aged couple agreeing to try again after a bad patch, which the solo versions don't do.

There were moments of gold
And there were flashes of light
There were things we'd never do again
But then they'd always seemed right
There were nights of endless pleasure
It was more than all your laws allow
Baby, baby, baby
When you touch me like this
And when you hold me like that
It was gone with the wind, but it's all coming back to me
When you see me like this
And when I see you like that
Then we see what we want to see, all coming back to me
The flesh and the fantasies, all coming back to me
I can barely recall, but it's all coming back to me now
If you forgive me all this
If I forgive you all that
We forgive and forget and it's all coming back to me now

... but it's not clarified in the lyrics quite how bad the bad patch was, and was he an abusive wanker, so not sure its all positive.

But it's on the same album as "What about love" which makes me feel it's the same context

We've been lost in a sea of confusion
Got caught up in a selfish illusion
But make no mistake: I will bend till I break
Don't let fate make the choice for us

What about love that lasts forever?
What about time to see it through?
If you don't give you just don't get it
What about me?
What about you?
What about love?

I can't go on another day
Comin' home and seeing you cryin'
Can't stand another night
Of telling you I'm fine when I'm dying

Forever means nothing
To live without you
Is reaching for something that never comes through
Together is heaven
Apart we're in hell
The time for forgiveness is now

Ohh, once in a lifetime you'll find
Someone to share your dreams
For a lifetime
Our love will always set us free
Forever we'll believe...

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:37

user293948849167 · 12/09/2026 11:31

Sheena Easton - Morning Train. I love it but always thinks she needs to get a life instead of waiting around for her boyfriend to come home every day!

yes, it just sounds so boring doesn't it? If you don't want a job, at least get a hobby. including commute time your baby must be gone for a minimum of 9 hours Sheena. there's only so clean a house can get. why not take up spot welding, or macrame?

OP posts:
BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:35

I've always thought that Different Drum (sung with an outstanding vocal by Linda Ronstadt) feels different when you know it was written by a man (Mike Nesmith of the Monkees, fact fans)

So, don't get me wrong, it's not that I knock it
It's just that I am not in the market
For a boy who wants to love only me
Yes, and I ain't sayin' you ain't pretty
All I'm saying's I'm not ready for any person
Place or thing to try and pull the reins in on me

I guess at least he's being honest, but likely after they've shagged I'd guess

OP posts:
user293948849167 · 12/09/2026 11:31

Sheena Easton - Morning Train. I love it but always thinks she needs to get a life instead of waiting around for her boyfriend to come home every day!

Gribouille · 12/09/2026 11:29

@IsadoraQuagmire 🤯! The trouble is, Bacharach wrote such great bastarding tunes...

Yes, great thread @BernardBlacksMolluscs !

@MarieDeGournay that's adorable... I'm straight, but Doris was really rather fetching in that film... 😍

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:28

SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 12/09/2026 11:26

Sad but true. Can't place some on your list, so off for a listen.

I kind of don't object to a straight up 'I want to have sex with you' song as long as there's no creepy gaslighting and no implication of force. at least it's honest!

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SlackJawedDisbeliefXY · 12/09/2026 11:26

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:18

I once made a little playlist of songs called 'I want you'. there's loads, mostly written by men.

Bob Dylan
The Beatles
Savage Garden
Marvin Gaye
Elvis Costello

Sad but true. Can't place some on your list, so off for a listen.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 12/09/2026 11:25

Gribouille · 12/09/2026 11:19

If ever I feel my blood pressure isn't high enough, I just have to think of Burt Bacharach's 'Wives and Lovers' and be glad it's no longer 1963... 🤬🤮

Hey, little girl
Comb your hair, fix your make-up
Soon he will open the door
Don't think because
There's a ring on your finger
You needn't try any more

For wives should always be lovers, too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
I'm warning you

Day after day
There are girls at the office
And men will always be men
Don't send him off
With your hair still in curlers
You may not see him again

For wives should always be lovers, too
Run to his arms the moment he comes home to you
He's almost here

Hey, little girl
Better wear something pretty
Something you'd wear to go to the city
And dim all the lights
Pour the wine, start the music
Time to get ready for love

Oh, time to get ready
Time to get ready
Time to get ready
For love

I wanted to react to this but none of the emojis work. there is no world in which i can 'thank', 'agree', 'love' or 'support' this. good heavens

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