Healthiest and Unhealthiest relationships in songs?

Hopelessly romantic, deeply cynical, sometimes both in the same song. Also very queer, in the best way of it not mattering whether the lovers in the songs are men singing to men, men to women, women to men or women to women.

Rhinos are hopeless romantics by the way, but you have to get through their tough armour first.

Thank you for introducing me to Magnetic Field, FlirtsWithRhinos ,
I had never heard of them.

And I thought I was a hopeless romantic - I'm only in the ha'penny place compared with these lovely songs

Based on your username, I'm tempted to ask: do the rhinos like these songs?😂

And I've left it long enough to offer two more Magnetic Fields songs, both beautiful songs. A pair for the start and the end of a marriage.

Healthy: It's Only Time

Why would I stop loving you
A hundred years from now?
It's only time.
It's only time.

What could stop this beating heart
Once it's made a vow?
It's only time.
It's only time.

If rain won't change your mind,
Let it fall.
The rain won't change my heart
At all.

Lock this chain
Around my hand,
Throw away the key.
It's only time.
It's only time.

Years falling
Like grains of sand
Mean nothing to me.
It's only time.
It's only time.

If snow won't change your mind
Let it fall.
The snow won't change my heart,
Not at all.

I'll walk your lands
(And swim your sea)
And swim your sea

Marry me.
Marry me.
Then in your hands
(I will be free)
I will be free

Marry me.
Marry me.
Why would I stop loving you
A hundred years from now?

Unhealthy: Busby Berkley Dreams

I should have forgotten you long ago
But you're in every song I know
Whining and pining is wrong and so
On and so forth, of course of course
But no, you can't have a divorce

I haven't seen you in ages
But it's not as bleak as it seems
We still dance on whirling stages
In my Busby Berkeley dreams
The tears have stained all the pages
Of my True Romance magazines
We still dance in my outrageously beautiful
Busby Berkeley dreams

And now you want to leave me for good
I refuse to believe you could
You forget we're not made of wood
Well darling you may do your worst
Because you'll have to kill me first

I haven't seen you in ages
But it's not as bleak as it seems
We still dance on whirling stages
In my Busby Berkeley dreams
The tears have stained all the pages
Of my True Romance magazines
We still dance in my outrageously beautiful
Busby Berkeley dreams

Do you think it's dangerous
To have Busby Berkeley dreams?

That's exactly what I thought too when I read the lyrics!

Taylor Swift, unsurprisingly, has some cracking songs about toxic relationships... Dear John springs to mind.

Call me a hopeless romantic but I understand this as the person who marries Mary is considered a 'millionaire' because Mary loves them, not because of 'the Benjamins'...
And I don't care if you're right, HelloDenise, I'm going to continue interpreting it my way, so there nurrrr, cos I love this song and nothing about it can be imperfect 😃

The unhealthy song I've been singing today: Sheela na Gig by PJ Harvey

You hope this time she is gonna wash that man right out of her hair, but you know it's going to keep happening as long as she only values herself as a list of body parts

She may have been mentioned already, but Anne Peebles has a really conflicted catalogue of "strong woman you don't want to mess with / oh why are you putting up with that?" lyrics.

Joan Armatrading I love It (When You Call Me Names) is an unusual relationship.

Healthy, I think is Haunted by Sinéad O'Connor and Shane MacGowan

Shane -
The first time I saw you standing in the street
You were so cool you could have put out Vietnam
Sinead - My girlfriends ask me, "What's he like?" I say, "He's kind of shy
But that's the kind of girl I am, he's my kind of guy"

I think the relationship in Anywhere With You by Maggie Rogers is healthy, but it could go either way to be honest.

Today I am ashamed to have sung along to I'd Rather Go Blind by Etta James, Right Here In My Arms by Him and Want Me by Baby Queen. Even Baby You're So Square by Buddy Holly sounds nice but is actually rather snide. And my playlist hasn't even got to rapey Elvis yet...

Healthy - Respect by Aretha Franklin. I know it's a cliche, and the guy she's singing about sounds like borderline not a keeper frankly, but I love the line 'I ain't gonna do you wrong, cause I don't want to'. She's all in, but she's still telling him how she expects to be treated

@BernardBlacksMolluscs Really interesting thread, thanks!

Haven't seen this mentioned: I have a slightly different take on Respect, if you recall that it was written by a man (Otis Redding). And he didn't write it for Aretha, he released it himself first.

If you read the lyrics with the man as the narrator, you get a picture of a relationship in which the man is saying to the woman "I work all day to make money that I spend on you, so when I get home, you'd better hold up your end of the bargain (sex)."

He doesn't want respect, he wants sex, and because he's using his money to keep her in the manner to which he thinks/believes she has become accustomed, he's expecting her to provide sex any time he wants it.

I won't post all the lyrics here, but some of them sound quite threatening/manipulative to me:

I'm about to give you all of my money
And all I'm askin' in return, honey
Is to give me my propers when you get home...

Ooh, your kisses, sweeter than honey
And guess what? So is my money..,

I hasten to add that I love this song anyway, and Aretha definitely made it her own! It's just if you listen to it from a man's point of view...

I suppose Aretha is saying the same thing, about her money, and probably about the sex, but somehow, it's not quite as coercive when she says it (although of course it still is) - the power will remain with the man because no woman would physically be able to force a man to have sex (although I suppose she could psychologically wear him down!)

It sounds like Mary dumped him for someone on "7 figures".

When I was Mary's prayer by Danny Wilson - a 'perfect pop song' aurally, I think and it has 'say ten Hail Marys' in the lyrics, which jumps out of the radio at Catholics, current and lapsed - that's a whole Decade of the Rosary!

The gist seems to be that there was a time when he had a wonderful relationship with Mary, and then he blew it.
I made such a big mistake
When I was Mary's prayer

A little bit of hope for redemption?
So if I say save me, save me
Be the light in my eyes
And if I say ten Hail Marys
Leave a light on in Heaven

But acceptance that she's moved on:
Blessed is the one who shares
Your power and your beauty, Mary
Blessed is the millionaire
Who shares your wedding day
..
What I wouldn't give to be
When I was Mary's prayer

It's healthy in that the narrator is heart-broken, but takes the blames himself, he messed up the relationship.

And - like in 'The Lakes of Pontchartrain' - the love remains, it doesn't turn into bitterness, it's not a sinister 'I still love you and every step you take... etc' in both songs there's respect for the woman and her choice
'Blessed is the one who shares/Your power and your beauty, Mary'
I💖 those lines

Thanks for reminding me of that song. I haven't heard it in years but I remember first hearing it when I was very young and realising what the end of love could feel like and feeling sad about it. She's Leaving Home and Eleanor Rigby made had the same effect on me. I hated hearing them. Great songs though.

On the subject of folksongs, there's a song called The Lakes of Pontchartrain where the expected/feared outcome doesn't happen, several times.

Narrator finds himself stranded and penniless because it's Louisiana and they still have a different currency.
He meets a 'Creole' girl - I know that can mean different things, be from his description she would appear to be African-American.
Uh-oh.

She sees he is in trouble and invites him to stay with her and her mother-
"You're welcome here kind stranger
Our house is very plain
But we never turned a stranger out
On the banks of Pontchartrain"
nooooo! FFS! don't invite a strange man into your home!

He declares his love for her. Hmmmmm.. is that 'love' or ...
He want to marry her. Or so he says, right?
Her fiancé is away at sea - so does she decide feck that, love the one you're with?
No, she remains true to her love, and rejects the narrator.
Uh-oh. How is he going to take rejection, maybe not well at all..

But it's the loveliest, and healthiest, of endings

So fare thee well, my bonny own girl
I never may see you more
But I'll ne'er forget your kindness
In the cottage by the shore
And at each social gathering
A flowing glass I'll drain
And I'll drink a health to my Creole girl
By the lakes of Pontchartrain
💖

Paul Brady 'owns' this song, if you want to google it

How about the Jennifer Warnes version from Famous Blue Raincoat?

Oh I love Bird on a Wire.

One Last Time by Ariana Grande is the female version of this song!

Another song I love (especially the Aaron Neville version), but is very deeply unhealthy is Bird on a Wire by Leonard Cohen. “Feel sorry for me, I’m a shit to you and everyone…”.

Like a bird on the wire
Like a drunk in a midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free
Like a worm on a hook
Like the knight from some old-fashioned book
I have saved all my ribbons for thee

If I, if I have been unkind I hope that you can just let it go by
If I, if I have been untrue I hope you know, it was not to you

Like a baby stillborn
Like a beast with his horn I
have torn everyone who reached out for me
But I swear, by this song
And by all that I have done wrong
I will make it all up to thee

I saw a beggar standing on his wooden crutch He said to me, "You not ask for so much"
And a pretty woman leaning in her darkened door She cried to me, "Hey, why not ask for more?"

Like a bird on the wire
Like a drunk in an old midnight choir
I have tried in my way to be free

Yep, it's a very pretty "if you loved me you'd shag me" song, but it is still a "if you loved me you'd shag me" song.

A slightly more niche one is Tunnel of Love by Fun Boy Three
"You gave up your friends for a new way of life
And both ended up as ex-husband and wife
There were twenty-two catches
when you struck your matches
And threw away your life
in the tunnel of love"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=Qi7BXqmYxiw

Written by Leon Rosselson, who also wrote this story of lovers kept apart by money, but not quite in the usual way:

That lessons from folksongs piece is excellent.

The Dubliners also have (mostly) sound advice on avoiding the fate of some of those in the unhealthy songs.

Don't get married girls
You'll sign away your life
You may start off as a woman
But you'll end up as the wife
You could be a vestal virgin
Take the veil and be a nun
But don't get married girls
For marriage isn't fun

Oh it's fine when you're romancing
And he plays the lover's part
You're the roses in his garden
You're the flame that warms his heart
And his love will last forever
And he'll promise you the moon
But just wait until you're wedded
Then he'll sing a different tune

You're his tapioca pudding
You're the dumplings in his stew
But he'll soon begin to wonder
What he ever saw in you
Still he takes without complaining
All the dishes you provide
But you see he's got to have
His bit of jam tart on the side

So don't get married girls
It's very badly paid
You may start off as the mistress
But you'll end up as the maid
Be a daring deep sea diver
Be a polished polyglot
But don't get married girls
For marriage is a plot

Have you seen him in the morning
With a face that looks like death
With dandruff on his pillow
And tobacco on his breath
And he needs some reassurance
With his cup of tea in bed
For he's worried by the mortgage
And the bald patch on his head

And he's sure that you're his mother
Lays his head upon your breast
So you try to boost his ego
Iron his shirt and warm his vest
Then you get him off to work
The mighty hunter is restored
And he leaves you there with nothing
But the dreams you can't afford

So don't get married girls
Men are all the same
They just use you when you need you
You'd do better on the game
Be a call girl, be a stripper
Be a hostess, be a whore
But don't get married girls
For marriage is a bore

When he comes home in the morning
He can hardly spare a look
All he says is "What's for dinner?"
After all you're just the cook
But when he takes you to a party
Well he eyes you with a frown
For you know you've got to look your best
You mustn't let him down

All he'll clutch you with that
"Look what I've got" twinkle in his eyes
Like he's entered for a raffle
And he's won you for the prize
Oh but when the party's over
You'll be slogging through the sludge
Half the time a decoration
And the other half a drudge

So don't get married
It'll drive you round the bend
It's the lane without a turning
It's the end without an end
Take a lover every Friday
Take up tennis, be a nurse
But don't get married girls
For marriage is a curse

And there's the Loch Tay Boat Song, which is the lament of a young man who's been rejected by the woman he loves, and he doesn't know why. But he's not angry or full of revenge or anything tragic, so I suppose that's a creditable response.
https://mainlynorfolk.info/folk/songs/lochtayboatsong.html

She’s my lovely nighean ruadh
She’s my joy and sorrow too
And although she is untrue
Well I cannot live without her

The Gaelic words mean "red-headed girl".

Sorry for not reading all the previous postings, but "Under My Thumb" by the Rolling Stones has to be about the worst. Although I can't help enjoying the phrase "Siamese cat of a girl".

As for something good (surely there's something somewhere) I really like Not Too Much to Ask, by Mary Chapin Carpenter:

[Verse: Mary Chapin Carpenter first 2 lines, Joe Diffie 3rd and 4th]
To hear you say my name, to see you search my eyes
To feel you touch my hand, it more than satisfies
If I was not the first, just say I'll be the last
It's too much to expect, but it's not too much to ask

[Chorus: Mary Chapin Carpenter & Joe Diffie]
Now I can only dream of being all you need
And I can only try to be the reason why
You think about today and forget about the past
It's too much to expect, but it's not too much to ask

[Chorus: Mary Chapin Carpenter & Joe Diffie]
Now I can only dream of being all you need
And I can only try to be the reason why
You think about today, 'cause the past is just the past
It's too much to expect, but it doesn't hurt to ask
It's too much to expect, but it's not too much to ask

I've always had my doubts about the song Back of My Hand by The Jags. Good song, but IMO the lyrics are questionable, especially given the title, which can imply hitting someone. I might be the only person who thinks this, though.

You're not unreadable, you're not unbeatable
I know just what you are, don't push your luck too far
You're not untouchable, not just another girl
I'd get in touch with you, I only wish I knew that
I got your number, written on the back of my hand....