Wanting to discuss trans people with non gender critical folks

I don't believe you can change your gender but if I meet a trans person I'm likely to just go along with it and nay ask questions to understand their perspective.

personally I think it's a mental health problem for the most part but if they go for all the ops and commit ill use whatever pronouns they like.

soery the post isn't going the way you wanted, tbh I don't think anyone really understands the mindset so it must be even more confusing with autism

Apologies @OPi should have been clear I am gender critical, but wanted to share my observations of my clearly trans supporting friends.

Hi OP - I am really sorry to hear of your terrible experience.

And I can understand that you want to have a discussion about an issue.

But the problem is that this forum because it is about for women who are gender critical and believe in women's sex based rights, none of us can tell you.

We can all make guesses, write rude statements about it is just another men's rights movement.

So you are asking non-believers to try and think like those that are believers.

Not saying that others haven't started threads with a similar question, but more often than not answers are not exactly flippant but are just speculation by a those whose are sceptics.

I said on another thread, and your OP reminds me, I am beginning to think MNHQ should be asked to set up a forum called something like trans ideology so that if there are those who believe in it, and those like you who want to ask questions can have a dialogue.

I hope you dont think I am being a brusque, but given how you feel at the moment and your history am concerned that you will end up feeling more frustrated.

Best wishes and hoping you can just switch off for a bit, and get a good nights sleep.

I found in my discrete friendship groups that my male gay friends would parrot at me TWAW, quite early on in all of this. I also have found that increasingly my male gay friends are seeking out other gay males for friendships. Not sexual. I feel it is a little bit 'circle the wagons'. Ie only have people in our circle who are like us. I have known these friends for over 30 years. I have never felt so alienated from them, but none will have any sort of discussion about the impact to women. I have decided that my support for women and girls is jmportant, so genuinely I think my friendships with these men will fade. They have supporters eg families who have trans identified individuals. I am now starting to see interaction towards me after years of frostiness. I can only assume the TI indiv is no longer trans. Well not sure how i feel about that.

You don’t need to square any circles.

Men should never be given access to what belongs to women.

There is no coherent answer that gives access to some men, but not other men.

I’m gender critical too, but as I understand it the whole thing is based on what meaning one gives to the word "woman". There are nutcases like India Willoughby who are males who actually believe they are now female, but I think most transwomen and their supporters think "woman" now just means a person who behaves in the ways traditionally (stereotypically) associated with females.

It’s crazy, of course.

This Sophie Grace Chappell?

Well the simple answer is, you don’t.
if any man is allowed into any female only space then it isn’t a female only space, men get what they want and women don’t.
if men are kept out of all female only spaces then women get what they want and men don’t. There is no compromise on this, one side wins and only one side.

This is going to be one of those threads isn't it?

Look I'm so reasonable and how everyone here is so unreasonable.

Hi OP this is really nice to see on here. But I don’t think if you want to hear from non gender critical people you will find them on Mumsnet, certainly not on this board. You can’t have the discussion you want here. I would ask some people in real life. And/or, here is some good reading material that fits the bill: "Transgender: a Dialogue,” a conversation between Sophie-Grace Chappell (trans philosopher) and Holly Lawford-Smith (gender-critical philosopher), Chappell writes in first person about her own identity, then Lawford-Smith responds from a gender-critical position,and they go back and forth directly on your three questions — how to tell if someone's trans is "genuine," what self-ID does to sex-based spaces, whether trans women are "really" women.

aeon.co/essays/transgender-identities-a-conversation-between-two-philosophers

Indeed they do. But isn't that why OP has asked for their opinions not ours (GC). She is GC so wants to hear "the other side"

But there really is no logical answer OP, other than 'because they want to be' and people stand with them usually because they haven't been subjected to any kind of violence or sexual mistreatment from men, so therefore any insinuation that could happen is just hyperbole according to them

But doesn’t “square those rights” mean to make them exist together? TRA won’t accept anything but total adoration and compliance

I don’t understand why you felt a need for this particular thread since we have
been doing this over and over again.

it will just attract the usual suspects, not the people on the thread we are both on, which I assume you are hoping to engage.

Isn't it like some people believe in God and you can't understand why, they just do?

Not only would OP not be trying to square those rights, the TRAs (or Queen Cleopatra equivalent) wouldn't be fighting for you to have that right either. In fact, I think everyone else would think you were insane and need locking up.

So what OP is asking for is why men claiming to be women are believed when someone claiming to be Queen C would be considered insane.