Parkrun comments giving me the rage

Is the difference between the age and sex categories Parkrun’s approach? With age the assumption is you will be honest about your age. With sex there is no such assumption. It’s essentially ‘pick whichever you like’. They could, like the NHS online service, use ‘sex assigned at birth’.

What’s the point in having categories if half the people are lying?

Yes.

Explaining on a women's rights forum that women should meet men's interests above their own is certainly a view different to the majority one.

This is another thing that 'nice' women and girls are supposed to do though, isn't it?

Smile mistily and insist that they are so glad to surrender themselves and their opportunities in order to serve and promote and further the far more important interests of this vulnerable man in the cause of social justice.

Ffs.

a) Pass the sick bucket
b) sign the women/girl up instantly for the bloody freedom programme and some therapy to help her gain a sense of self and boundaries, not to be a codependent disaster looking for somewhere to happen
c) find out whose extreme sexism - with some sadism too, I have to say - taught her to get on her knees with a smile for a man, while pretending it's a lovely healthy thing to do. And do a bit of safeguarding.

I don't think that's fair. @cobaltchlorides is expressing her opinion in a reasonable way, it's just different from the majority one.

No?

'kicking the hornet's nest' - well yes. Coming to a women's rights forum to suggest that good women prioritise the needs of men above themselves, and don't complain or try to find ways to meet their own needs?

It's a bit like going onto the vegan forum and announcing that being vegan is weird and nice people don't do it.

Yup. Beaten by a cheater and you’d be ok with that? Awesome. What about the woman coming third who should have got second? You’re like that TRA saying he’d be happy if his daughter was beaten by a TIM or lost a scholarship cos “inclusivity” right? Notice it’s not his daughter saying that….

No one’s asking for ‘sex checks’ just that a woman’s category is for women, not women and some men who fancy it.

Well why don’t you run in the men’s category and support your friend?

Those women can set up their own running event then.

Parkrun is a free event run by volunteers, expecting them to enforce sex checks is ridiculous. If you choose to do parkrun then you accept that the entire event and categories are based on good will.

If you don’t agree with that then create “True and honest women run” with whatever entry conditions you like.

It may not be a hill you’d die on but what’s the right and fair outcome?

A man taking first female or a woman taking first female?

Surely that’s not a difficult question to answer?

'Making life a bit more unpleasant for trans people'....

Men, let's be honest about this. You're talking about a particular group of people with trans identities, where the single defining characteristic is that they are all men.

And you feel that it is pleasant for these men to be able to role play being biological women in all situations.

And this is extended to a moral duty to all women to surrender their own equality of opportunity, ambition and fairness, and to do this without protest or seeking an alternative, in order to provide a group of men with an emotional experience they would like?

Is this a biological duty for women, to selflessly give so that men can be happy?

There have been age and sex categories since parkrun started and nobody ever checks as far as I know. So it's not really any different. It's an amateur event, people can lie if they want to, we have to take it on trust that most do not.

I don't think there is much appetite for demanding people's birth certificates.

I wonder how Parkrun’s policy fits with things like this (from 2018). Receiving funding to boost participation from women. How were they measuring success?

https://www.sportengland.org/news/sport-england-partner-with-parkrun-for-three-years-with-3-million-investment

So, mine doesn't. I think competitive sports, like the Olympics, are a lot more tricky to untangle. But at parkrun? It's not a problem.

If I really strongly had a problem with being second female finisher after a trans woman, there would be noone stopping me from saying I was first female. I'm sure parkrun wouldn't bar you for that! But for my money, I'd say I was second.n

I am struggling with working out my thoughts on this.

I do feel some of the people commenting don't really know or understand parkrun. And I do feel like we're only talking about a small number of people.

But if I was second woman (never gonna happen) and was beaten to first place by someone who was obviously a man saying they were a woman, then yes, I would be rather annoyed. But again, it's not a hill I'm going to die on. I'm far more concerned about professional sport where it is actually people's livings and careers, than what is just a hobby for most.

I don't consider fair sports for women a side issue. Like I said, I've campaigned for pregnancy deferrals, it's something I feel strongly about.

I am pretty sure trans men are aligned with me on this. Who you would consider 'females'. I'm expressing that a lot of these arguments feel in bad faith.

Please, just come to a local parkrun and see what it's like. It's a lovely community activity, and I think that you'd quickly see that the rankings are one of the less important bits of it.

How can you compare yourself to other women if men are saying they’re women and vice versa?

How can you compare yourself to your age group, when in theory people 20 years younger could pretend to be in the same age group as you?

Your point is the exact reason why people are against it.

Or even register as “prefer not to say”.

'Making a life a bit more unpleasant for trans people'

This actually tells me a lot about you. Not only do you consider fair sports for women a side issue, you actually see fair sports as something negative because a group of male people don't like it. Even though all these male people need to do is get over themselves and register in the male categorie.

I mean, if nobody cares about their times and where they place in categories, then they could just stop publishing times and categories.

But they won’t do that.

Some of them quite evidently are.

But even if they were not, can’t you see the ridiculousness of a man placing as ‘first female’. Does your logical brain and instinct for what’s right not strongly object to that?

I'm not sure actual parkrun participants are clamouring for this. Run results are not chip timed, so there's a general understanding that it's never going to be perfect. Sometimes your barcode doesn't even scan! The maybe 1 or 2 trans participants just aren't making a dent in the overall veracity of the results. It's volunteer-run, and works because there's a lot of goodwill.

It’s not that your opinion doesn’t count, it’s that your opinion (under scrutiny) prioritises men’s desires over women’s.

Which is fine, it’s your opinion, but that has to be acknowledged.