Should there be stricter checks before gender transition treatment is approved?

yes

1. these men don't want to become women. they want to become their weird, disordered view of what women are

2. the behaviour of men of role play as 'women' demonstrates again and again that actually, yes, they do hate us. The quotes up thread from the likes of Shon Faye and Andrea Long Chu are representative of how men who role play as women think about women

A previous poster wrote this

Men who hate women don't want to become them, be treated as them, or have their physical strength (among other things) decreased by estrogen.

I was attempting to demonstrate what nonsense that was.

I agree with this, ‘gender’ care on the NHS should be psychotherapy, long term mental health support to help them accept that they can’t change sex. We have to stop giving cross sex hormones, they do long term harm. Cosmetic surgery should be minimal, and an absolute last resort for those with such severe dysphoria that therapy alone doesn’t help, which was what it was designed for. Anyone can pay for cosmetic surgery, breast implants & reductions are available privately, and payment plans/credit is how most are paid for, there’s no reason why claiming gender confusion should get this surgery for ‘free’ from our already struggling NHS.

In a caring context, presumably.

But I think the idea may have been to point out most precisely that murder is generally not a sign of affection for the victim.

Was it Dana Rivers (transwoman) who affectionately murdered two lesbians and their adopted son?

Men who claim to love women often impersonate them, gaslight them, undermine and abuse them, rape them and kill them. Just read the stories of the trans widows.
Saying men go into women’s spaces anyway is like saying nonces are always going to work with children: so sod safe guarding. It’s offensive and unproductive.

Goodness me, how murky a subject is it if you need the facts to be hidden. Transition is absolutely not a private affair, it is a subject that needs to be given much greater airing, discussion and scrutiny to prevent the tragedy of medicated and mutilated bodies and to expose those who are capitalising on this bizarre epidemic.

If those claiming to be in the wrong body want to access NHS funds for hormones, psychiatrists and surgeons then society needs to shine a light on the actual facts, procedures and long term damage that claiming to be in the wrong body does. As an aside how is it possible to even know you are in the wrong body, these individuals are most probably unhappy with elements of their life and radical unnecessary surgery is a massive sledgehammer approach to a problem. It is also majorly about control in my opinion, misogyny has been given a platform, with rational people feeling they cannot question it for fear of being branded phobic or thought of as unkind.

The NHS is crumbling and should be there for essentials only emergency medicine, cancer care and certainly not for vanity projects.

I’m sure Barbie Kardashian’s female victims would also have something to say to TPA too.

Men who hate women don't want to become them

Like Shon Enjoy-ur-erasure Faye?
Like Andrea Blank-blank-eyes-and-expectant-asshole Long Chu?
Like India Women-who-don’t-shave-their-legs-are-disgusting Willoughby?

Yeah, right.

TransParentlyAnnoyed
The right is using trans people's existence as a wedge issue. Their long-term goals involve limiting the freedoms of women and gay people.

Actually you have that wrong. It's not that nebulous entity "the right".

But if you substitute "MRAs" for "the right", I think you might actually be onto something. For a change. The long term goals definitely match, anyway.

It's single sex spaces, @TransParentlyAnnoyed. Single sex spaces. Not safe spaces. As has been pointed out to you several times before. Please try to understand this.

i am an eternal optimist 😂😂.

Oh for goodness' sake, you're using rational argument and logic again. It never works!

But then if “women’s spaces” are not safe, why do TIM believe they will be safe in there? Isn’t their main argument that they can’t be in men’s spaces because men will attack them? Surely if women’s spaces are just as dangerous, then that negates the need for them to access women’s spaces doesn’t it? They might as well just use the men’s.

@TransParentlyAnnoyed “Men who hate women don't want to become them”

Why are men pretending to be women then?

Why do men not listen to women when we tell them we don’t want men in women’s single-sex spaces?

Yea. Thailand is often cited by TRAs as one of those ‘non-European cultures with a centuries-old and more enlightened idea of gender’, but as has been pointed out mannnyyyy times. They still treat transwomen as the men they are in lots of circumstances.

Men who hate women don't want to become them

You have it the wrong way round. They hate us because they cannot become us.

Thanks!

I am a nasty person; I am so glad that a man who knew what he was doing knocked seven bells out of Tara. And I am also glad that "in Thailand, trans women fight men": realistic for men to be expected to fight other men, really. Of course, poor little Tara feels that it is unfair; he'd rather smack people more than twice his age about, I expect, because that is obviously more equitable.

Interesting that he is autistic.

But that was more than six years ago; I wonder if he is still fighting, in his later mid-thirties.

He appears to have found another way to keep hitting women.

https://undertheropes.com/2020/02/02/british-trans-fighter-tara-wolf-nong-toom/

EmpressaurusKitty
You don’t think AidaP, who threatens to rape women with splintery rolling pins, hates women? Or Alan / Sarah Jane Baker, who encouraged crowds to punch us? Or rapists Karen White & Isla Bryson?

Another automatically non-trans, a while ago now, was Tara Wolf, who, in 2017 and at the age of twenty-six, and having on the previous day announced his intention of attacking someone at random, assaulted a sixty-one-year-old woman for having a phone in her hand. His excuse was that he feared she might post pictures of him online and out him in some way, which given his online presence was an absurd suggestion. He was found guilty of assault by beating and fined a derisory £150, which was hailed as a victory in my hearing by TRAs.

(I wonder what has become of dear fragile little Tara....)

And all women need to resist any attempts to limit what people can do with their own bodies.

The implication that critiquing surgical body modifications is a new idea within feminist thought is quite the take.

If a man only wants to gain access to 'female spaces' then he isn't going to transition to do it. Men who hate women don't want to become them, be treated as them, or have their physical strength (among other things) decreased by estrogen.

Really? You don’t think AidaP, who threatens to rape women with splintery rolling pins, hates women? Or Alan / Sarah Jane Baker, who encouraged crowds to punch us? Or rapists Karen White & Isla Bryson?

Or are they automatically not trans?

Transition is a private affair.

If only.

If transition is private, we wouldn't have men telling us about their imaginary cervix and claiming their transition makes them a woman.

Adult men can do what they like with their own money and their own bodies, but when these men start claiming its a 'transition' they make it everyone else's business.

If its private, stop telling children transition is possible, stop boring everyone senseless about being unsafe in men's spaces, or not being able to play sport.

Have the risky, pointless surgery and drugs but dont expect other to pick up the pieces.