'Pregnant people'

I agree tbh. I think it’s nonsense. I’ve dreamed of becoming a mother and now I’m finally getting to experience it, the word women isn’t even being used. I feel betrayed and disappointed.

@RowsOfFlowers “non-biological women”. No such thing!

They are MEN!!

Once the NHS can provide safe good quality maternity care for all women and babies, then maybe they can indulge themselves with irrelevant luxury beliefs demanded by the trans lobbyists. Until then they have one job - and that's to improve safety and outcomes for women and babies - everything else is a distraction from that core purpose.

yes. Every time there’s some new report or scandal about babies dying because women were ignored, women left maimed after awful treatment, women enduring painful procedures that leave them traumatised, there’ll be some representative on Woman’s Hour explaining how they’re going to do better and then referring to “pregnant people” in the same breath. Tell me you’re not taking this seriously without …. Well, actually, by refusing to use the word that is the most relevant and necessary here

Once the NHS can provide safe good quality maternity care for all women and babies, then maybe they can indulge themselves with irrelevant luxury beliefs demanded by the trans lobbyists. Until then they have one job - and that's to improve safety and outcomes for women and babies - everything else is a distraction from that core purpose.

Couldn't agree more. We have been complaining about the standards in maternity care for at least 50 years, and "lessons will be learnt" and bugger all happens.

And I am quite sure if middle - aged white males could get pregnant, the standards would change.

Because it's like saying 'The UK and Scotland'

It doesn't make sense, unless you are trying to force ideology or politics on people.

“women and pregnant people” “women and birthing people””

One word, ‘women’ would cover all that. No need for the added ‘pregnant people’ or ‘birthing people’!

What I don’t understand is if they want to include non biological women, why can’t they say “women and pregnant people” “women and birthing people” ??

this to me, is much more inclusive language… and women don’t get erased.

In a nutshell.

No but it's sadly popular on some podcasts etc. I did see one midwife quoted on a report who said women and birthing people but because that was too wordy it turned into WBP for the rest of her comment. She used WBP about six times in a few paragraphs! Better to be a person than an acronym I guess 🤦‍♀️

Bloody hell plese tell me that wasn't on an official communication?

Birthers is my worst one. Not even people 😭

Also 'actress' was a euphemism for prostituted woman in some circles.

And most women prefer words to describe their profession that don't draw attention to their sex - because of sexism. Acting ability has sod all to do with sex.

Unlike pregnancy.

Sometimes sex is relevant and sexual differences are important and we would like it to be recognised - because when it isn't, women lose out.

Where its not relevant, great, ignore it.

Its not the gotcha that some people think it is!

We do still use the word 'actress', but the reasoning behind using the word 'actor' instead is that both men and women act.

However, men and women do not have the same internal organs and physiology, and this matters to medical care.

Sometimes sex is relevant, sometimes it isn't.

If an NHS service uses incorrect terminology to describe something that only women can do then I worry that they are more concerned about centering the rights of a tiny minority rather than upholding the rights of a far greater number of women. Could it mean, for example, that they ignore the legislation around single sex spaces in the hospital? Is there a risk that requests from women for a female midwife or Dr might be ignored? Remember Dr Upton was clear that he would continue treating women even if they wanted a female Dr - and his managers supported him in that.

The NHS care for pregnant women and new borns is appalling on any scale with countless enquiries and recommendations. The idea that medics caring for mothers and babies should spend endless hours writing or learning policies that mangle factual sex based language and divert from their core purpose is completely unacceptable.

Once the NHS can provide safe good quality maternity care for all women and babies, then maybe they can indulge themselves with irrelevant luxury beliefs demanded by the trans lobbyists. Until then they have one job - and that's to improve safety and outcomes for women and babies - everything else is a distraction from that core purpose.

I’m on the Tommy’s website and I’m really disappointed to see they’re using the term “birthing people.”
https://www.tommys.org/pregnancy-information/im-pregnant/mental-wellbeing/relationship-problems-and-pregnancy

it makes me really angry

Because if the care given is apparently less important than the imperative of not offending trans identified people, it probably isn’t as good as it might be

I think there are good arguments on both sides about actor/actress. I always thought the argument that you wouldn’t say teacheress or doctoress was compelling, but I do also see the point that “actress” is specifically someone who plays women

but it doesn’t mean anyone who objected to being called an actress would also object to being correctly identified as a woman in a gynaecological or obstetric context

Why does it make any difference to your care if you are a person (woman) or a woman (woman). If the care is bad or good that's what it is, the word used makes no difference.

But also women don't wat to be women, we can't call a woman an actress any more they are an actor, why?

That shows how little you know about pregnancy and childbirth. Women can tell you that far too many of our shockingly appalling NHS maternity services are drowning with all sorts of anti women language and rhetoric instead of focussing on providing safe maternity care that doesn't kill women and babies.

Maybe spend a bit of time on Mumsnt listening to women - you'd be amazed what you can learn.

Biologically, an adult is an individual who has reached sexual maturity, so a pregnant human female is an adult in that sense, and a woman by definition.

It’s very simple, men are more important than women! It’s unfair, but we women must ‘know our place’!

@Mouldemort “Trans men, who have a uterus and ovaries can also become pregnant.”

Trans men are women, hence the name "trans men", not "men". Biologically they are - and always will be - female.

We have not changed the language for autistic people (2-3% of the population), people with ADHD (5%), dyslexic people (10%), people with severe trauma (11%). Why should we change it for 0.13%, when this change would simultaneously disadvantage 50% of the population - 50% who are also often suffer discrimination?