'Pregnant people'

Credit where credit's due.

In its story on the salmonella risk the BBC News website is using "pregnant women" in its headline and its own text.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2krdggx6xo

There is a quote from the FSA chief scientific adviser, Ian Young, where he says "..for those people in particular who are young, elderly, pregnant or vulnerable...", which is an obvious cop-out.

This is primarily to be inclusive to TIFs and non-binaries, not to TIMs.

No. If 'inclusivity' mattered there would be upteen ads for 'people with a prostate' to make sure that TIMs realised that despite how they identified, they could still get prostate cancer.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Today 03:19
Gynae care especially. If you aren't sure you can trust someone who will examine you so intimately, then you will be put off from attending.

So near and yet....so, so far.

If a woman who wants a woman to examine her can't be sure she can trust the person is actually a woman, she will be put off.

You are sympathetic to the feelings of transmen, fair enough, but you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge how women without a trans identity feel.

Transwomen are men. Even the doctor ones.

I’ve just looked this up. It is unbelievable!! One comment said “You can’t trans your DNA.”

Bit out of left field, but today I saw an instagram post of a TIM who had had lots of 'work' done to become a woman (!) and took a DNA test and was distraught to see he still came up XY. No shit sherlock? Unbelievable.

Yes - and no doubt continuing to ignore or completely disregard the wishes, feelings or discomfort of Australian women.

These are not the people who are unwelcome in health services - women are. Health services are falling over themselves to accommodate men.

If a "non-binary genderfluid" person ascends to the throne, I assume it will be Their Majesty, The Quing.

Imagine the upper crust after-dinner toasts.

"Ladies and gentlemen - The Quing!"

Assembled officers and gentlefolk, rising: "The Quing!"

This is appalling! I read that he is now practicing in Australia.

The difficulty of course is that not every woman is aware of her rights (it's known as something different in NHS Scotland btw), which is why you have people like Dr Upton who have freely admitted that they will continue to treat a woman even if she requests a female Dr. This means that women who may want to see a male Dr may be left feeling that she is not able to request one when she knows she's being treated by a male but he claims he's a woman. Absolutely chilling.

So you don't disagree that it is perfectly acceptable for traumatised women to request a change of doctor on the grounds that she does not wish to be examined by a male, however he presents? And you therefore, by extension, agree that sex is real and single sex care is essential for many women? Thank you.

Also, I did not use a slur for any minority. As someone who ticks several minority boxes myself, I would never do that.

I am sorry about your history - I am also an abuse survivor so I do empathise and understand how upsetting things like medical appointments can be. I hope you are doing okay 💐

Ain't that the truth!”

Fair point. The feelings and behaviour of trans-identified men are another whole minefield.

I’m aware and of course it’s all infuriating bollocks.

but as I said, it’s mildly less infuriating to me if it’s not TIM feelings that are being soothed, which some posters were implying.

This is just not an answer to the question. Nobody is saying trans people don't exist or deserve healthcare. Women deserve good maternity services and healthcare generally no matter how they feel about their sex or how they choose to perform whatever they perceive as 'gender'. But 'woman' is the right term for a human gestating a baby.

They are already included by virtue of being women - adult female humans. Sex cannot be changed. The inner feelings of individuals matter to them, of course, but they are no reason to change or erase the words which belong to and describe the female sex.

“We are all born of woman, and we carry the pulse of the first mother in our blood.”

My children were taught as far back as primary school that your intent and your impact can be wildly different things.

In an attempt to include the tiny minority of women who have a problem being referred to as such thus using "pregnant people" the word woman is wiped from the discussion about pregnancy and childbirth. You cannot have a useful discussion about abortion rights unless you define the people whom it affects - women. The Dobbs decision will have no impact whatsoever on my son's health - nor his decision on where to live. It may well have an impact on my daughters' health and pretending otherwise is just a lie - a lie that excludes women from the very thing that only affects them.

To say nothing of wiping the word "women" from the most dangerous yet incredible thing that we and only we can do with our bodies. every human who ever stood on this earth came from the body of a woman.

Sorry if this has already been said. This is primarily to be inclusive to TIFs and non-binaries, not to TIMs.

I know the principle is the same but I find it mildly less enraging to think of it that way.

Thank you. I will also explain in very simple terms.

These women who call themselves trans "men" do so because they have projected their personal issues with "women" onto words that to everyone else simply mean sex.

When people like yourself demand this sexist language is treated as an actual truth, it hurts everyone, just as acconodating racist or ablist language hurts everyone.

That you deny this doesn't matter. It is still true. The moment you give headspace to the idea that a female person can be anything other than a woman or girl, you add a non-physical quality into being a "woman" or "girl" that reduces our possibilities from the full diversity of the female half of the soecies into whatever sexist ideas trans "men" and "women" believe should limit us.

And it is not decent to impose this sexism onto the general population. Not. At. All.

This is such a good point about children becoming infertile.
“semen producing people “ 🤣

True, Sadly sexual maturity and the ability to become pregnant happens before full physical, psychological and emotional maturity. The fact remains that only females of the human species can become pregnant, which is the point I was making and how they identify is irrelevant.

I’ve slipped up before. I really have to think about it.

Trans women (or is it transwomen?) = Men
Trans-identified male (or is it man?) = Man

Agree also - and then when it becomes even clearer that the overwhelming majority of men who call themselves TW do absolutely nothing in terms of surgery or taking hormones, but simply demand everyone calls them Helen and give them access to whatever space their manly feelz demand, then the support drops away even further. The blinkers are off now - and continue to come off.

Replacing 'woman' with people is also a linguistic sleight of hand that makes language less universal and less understandable. Words refer to real objects (or ideas, I know) and directing them at an object to which they don't point is damaging linguistically as well as to women in particular in this case.
Transwomen are men. All pregnant 'people' are women - with no exception.
When I say baked beans I don't mean egg and chips.