terrifying, dangerous, abusive "advice" on r/transgenderuk

You said that puberty blockers are 'the first step on an inevitable journey toward more and more medical intervention'.

There is nothing about puberty blockers that renders that journey inevitable.

If what you mean is that puberty blockers are used in patients who have a very high likelihood of having gender dysphoria and a trans identity that persists into adulthood, then fine. I agree with that. But that's not what you said.

Have you been asleep for five years? Counselling is now called conversion therapy. The rest of your script is a pretty accurate argument of everything that has been debunked time and time again.

The problem with that study is that it does not address causation and doesn't actually provide a useful comparator.

It shows that those with GD who have had surgery have worse mental health than those with GD who have not had surgery.

That is not the same thing as saying that the decision to have surgery worsens mental health. Because what the study doesn't do is compare patients' mental health before and after surgery.

It is logical that those undergoing surgery are more likely to have mental health problems precisely because it is likely to be those with the most extreme dysphoria - which can in turn result in more extreme mental health conditions - that pursue surgery in the first place.

That’s reassuring. Perhaps the people saying they’ve changed their sex through X-sex hormonal treatments can also be re-educated. Many actually believe they have changed their biological sex.

There are so many examples.

I didn’t say it was ‘caused’ by them. I’m describing the situation as it is.

The post you were referring to was solely about puberty blockers. No one claims that puberty blockers changes anyone's sex. So the premise of the question is entirely ridiculous.

Key things that happen in puberty includes;

• Bone development: Puberty is a major period for building bone mass. A large proportion of adult bone density is established during adolescence, which affects the risk of osteoporosis and fractures later in life.
• Muscle and physical development: Sex hormones contribute to muscle, strength and changes in body composition.
• Reproductive development: The reproductive system matures and fertility becomes possible.
• Brain development: Puberty hormones interact with the developing brain and contribute to changes in emotional regulation, behaviour and cognition.
• Cardiovascular and metabolic development: Puberty helps establish adult patterns of body fat, blood pressure and metabolism.
• Growth: The pubertal growth spurt and eventual closure of the growth plates are hormonally regulated.

I do find it weird that people think they can just block puberty and it’s not detrimental. I know nothing about the Pride videos or images discussed and whether that could indicate that puberty blockers are causing health problems, are the kids this has been done to even old enough for any negative effects to be showing? This madness was pretty recent wasn’t it? Common sense tells us this is very bad for the body long term though.

I use HRT and am in my fifties and my body has completely seized up, I wouldn’t actively wish this on anyone.

That's not true, though.

There is nothing about puberty blockers that inevitably leads to further transition.

You are conflating causation and correlation - saying that because very high number of kids on puberty blockers go on to CSH, that path is caused by the puberty blockers. But you have no evidence for that.

The far more plausible explanation is that the figures related to Tavistock, where a very very small percentage of children were prescribed puberty blockers in the first place, and only after very lengthy waiting periods.

So puberty blockers prescribed to kids with the most extreme gender dysphoria, and whose dysphoria persisted for the many years they were on waiting lists. In other words, precisely the characteristics that point to gender dysphoria continuing into adulthood.

The question isn’t as ridiculous as it appears.
We’ve had many TIM on this forum before and they have insisted that by taking PB’s and then onto X-sex hormones, they have gone through a female puberty.

Were they wrong?

Yes. Adults who have previously been on puberty blockers are adults and there is zero evidence to support your implication that they lack capacity to consent to medical treatment.

Also known as conversion therapy.

Of course trans kids should have access to talking therapy. But if gender dysphoria persists into early stages of puberty, by 10-13, then no - using talking therapy to either convert them to being non-trans, or more benignly using talking therapy in place of medical treatment that can avoid significant distress is not always going to be the 'safer' option.

The 'opposite evidence' can't exist.

Because just as you cannot know a person's medical history just by looking at a picture of them, neither can I or anyone else.

The only difference is that you are the one claiming that you can and do know their medical history. I'm not brazen enough to come out with such nonsense.

What the poster is referring to is the increasingly common tendancy by some to post pictures of people at Pride who have some indication of disability, such as a walking stick, and wonder aloud about why 'so many' seem to have.

Usually it's been presented as some sort of implication that they are 'making it up' to appear cool. This is the first time I've seen anyone claim that they were all on puberty blockers and that is why they have some disability.

It's nonsense, of course. The poster has zero knowledge of any of these people's medical history. They have made multiple groundless associations - first that the people in the pictures are or were gender dysphoric; second, that they sought and received treatment; third, that that treatment was in the form of puberty blockers; and fourth, that those puberty blockers caused these assorted disabilities.

In other words, it is all made up.

Not because there aren't examples of disabled people at pride, but because the poster has made up the reason why those people are disabled.

What a ridiculous question. No one claims that puberty blockers changes anyone's sex.

I consider the blocking of research to establish regret rates to be the second worst piece of villainy of the trans activists, the first being advocacy for the use of puberty blockers.

Specifically, the author discusses the numbers lost to follow up (approx 60%) even in some short term studies. This makes claims of a vanishingly low regret rate impossible to substantiate.

This article hit my inbox this morning, thought it was relevant to the discussion on this thread. End notes link to the studies and papers referenced

https://open.substack.com/pub/pitt/p/beyond-gender-affirming-rhetoric?r=1one23&utm_medium=ios

Then we will have to disagree about the impact that significant numbers of young people in wheelchairs due to puberty blocking would have.

This is incredibly naive.

The Pathways researchers are fully aware that the trial they propose will:

Sterilise and make infertile its participants.
Cause osteoporosis/penia of uncertain severity.
Cause a failure of sexual development and subsequent sexual function.
Have an unknown effect on the developing brain of its participants.

The idea that severe osteoporosis outcomes would be the straw that breaks the ethical camel’s back on this trial proceeding is tragically laughable.

Has anyone on the pro-cosmetic gender "alignment" side clarified yet whether trans children are:

a) children of one sex with a deep and persistent belief they should have been the opposite sex, so deep and persistent that the only humane treatment is to force their developing body into the best rough facsimile of the appearance of the opposite sex we can

Or

b) children who actually are, in a genuine deep mental way, the opposite sex because sex for all of us is as much physical as mental, and for those with this DSD causing mismatch of the mind and body there is no cure for the objective fact that they really do have a mismatched sex in the mind and the body, but the more we can realign the faulty body expression of opposite sex towards the true sex of the mind, the happier the person?

I did used to provide links to the evidence...for the first decade of this 'argument'. Which the person in discussion would then completely ignore so when I last changed computers I stopped saving photos and links. But again you can go just watch a Trans PRIDE march yourself.

"Because there is a lot of evidence that transitioning - whether social, medical or surgical - can benefit some people with gender dysphoria" (my emphasis)

And there we have an obvious issue @ConveyancingHelll. You, and others, are advocating placing children onto a lifelong pathway of medical treatment that may benefit them. How can you identify who will benefit from medical transition? Particularly as most trans activists have given up the pretence that puberty blockers are any kind of pause button to see how it goes, and are rather the first step on an inevitable journey toward more and more medical intervention.

also know that the decision to proceed to cross sex hormones is a decision taken by competent adults, rather than some inevitable consequence of puberty blockers

What competent adults? You can't mean the individual that has had their puberty (i.e. the developmental process where a child becomes an adult) blocked so perhaps you mean the ones who facilitated it?

But wouldn't counselling to accept their actual sex be a safer option?

Because there is a lot of evidence that transitioning - whether social, medical or surgical - can benefit some people with gender dysphoria, and that process is much harder if they have gone through puberty in their natal sex, aside from the significant distress that a trans girl might feel at going through puberty to develop masculine features.