How do we deal with this? Transmen have police called on them

Indeed, and I am pretty certain that the vast majority of trans-identified females will understand that and would never want to re-traumatise another woman.

But one of the premises of the advocacy against transitioning is that people can always tell when someone is trans and that the concept of the passing trans person doesn’t exist.

If that is true then the trans man in women’s facilities or groups would be known to everyone to be biologically female so women using those facilities would not feel they are under threat because they are in the presence of a cisgender man.

So the only rationale for excluding a trans man from women’s spaces is not that other users feel threatened because he is a man, but rather that they feel uncomfortable being around someone who looks and sounds like a man.

You’d have your glasses on in a public loo, surely?

Trans men need to use toilets (e.g. to change tampons) just as urgently as cis women.

Passing them by in a public corridor isn't retraumatising. And yes, I am a survivor of violence. It's ridiculous to suggest that queuing or using a sink next to a trans guy hurts anyone.

Using slurs against them is totally unnecessary too.

Well, gender critical people don’t all believe the exact same things about the whole issue.

In my opinion, a very small number of transmen do pass. Not many transwomen do- generally only those who blocked puberty and got onto cross sex hormones at a young age.

The transmen that I know personally are still obviously female, but I’m aware that there are a few transmen out there who pass pretty convincingly (visually at least; the voice often gives the game away).

Men can also use women’s toilets. It’s not illegal. It’s always been societal expectations (and women knowing they can object when they are ignored) that has kept decent men out.

The problem with changing those expectations, so women were unclear on whether it was reasonable to object was that many women didn’t feel confident in asking for men to be removed.

Obviously in the case of toilets, it is likely this will be based on appearance as no additional checks will be done. It’s imperfect and always has been and that’s normal in society, but it worked well enough to help women for around 100 years before men began to claim they were women and insisted women were not allowed to object.

We were talking about RCCs.
Wrt toilets, I imagine many trans-identified females will choose the unisex option.
I cba to ask you to point out the slur, because to TRAs everything they don't like about reality is a 'slur'.

As I stated above, this is a fabricated scenario, deliberately plotted to show how "absurd", according to trans activists and their handmaidens, the legal obligation to recognise biological sex is (to be clear, I don't think this is absurd, I think it's entirely logical.

In Kansas, where these biological females pulled their stunt, identity document must indicate biological sex and not made-up gender woo woo. These females could easily have shown their driver's licences as soon as they were questioned by the people who run the toilet facility or the other women in it. That the police ended up being called suggests they were deliberately not showing their driver's licences. They wanted to create an incident.

They are literally wearing t-shirts with the logo "SB244 Compliance Crew", SB244 being the law that states that only biological sex, not made-up gender woo woo, is relevant for same-sex spaces, so if the police were called they would likely have understood straight away what was going on, and so probably would the management. They also say in the article that they and other "SB244 Compliance Crew" members went into other women's facilities, mostly without complaint other than dirty looks, but it's not explained why this particular incident escalated. They don't make any specific accusations against the facility management, so what happened? Did the "Crew" deliberately try to escalate things because they were getting so little response from their other organised visits to women's facilities and wanted to up the ante to get in the media?

Trans men need to use toilets (e.g. to change tampons) just as urgently as cis women.

And in the UK, they cannot be left without provision.

I think if I'd seen them, I might also have given an inadvertent "dirty look", more probably an eye-roll - but it would have been caused by the t-shirts and the silly posturing they signify, not by the "transness", and definitely not because I believed for one tiny fraction of a second that they were men.

I tend to agree with the OP. It's not really a fabricated scenario, even if this is a stunt. Where should transmen go to the toilet? Legally they aren't allowed in the mens. If they are clearly transgender, women may not feel threatened by them. But it really isn't always possible to tell. I suspect many women will be uncomfortable with them in the women's toilets.

I think any transman that goes into a female toilet knowing fine well that not only will their presence upset other women but also children need to take a long look at what they are doing and why. Everyone makes choices in their lives and they should be well aware before transitioning that navigating spaces and services divided by sex, which for the majority is the norm, is going to be difficult. When I had kids my life changed and yes navigating loos with a push chair, or finding baby changing facilities was not easy. However, it was a choice and I had to work with it.

So should any woman who knows their presence will upset other woman or children because of how they look also refrain from being in their presence?

Like who? Women swirling chainsaws around their heads?

"If they are clearly transgender, women may not feel threatened by them. But it really isn't always possible to tell. I suspect many women will be uncomfortable with them in the women's toilets"

Yes but this is what people fought for. Everyone uses the toilets for their biological sex (unless their venue also has room for a unisex facility).

Outside of counselling services etc people have to deal with it. After all transmen do not have penises.

It's not 'people' having to deal with it. It is women. The presence of a very masculine looking TIF is going to make some women uncomfortable or even scared, sometimes for very good and personal reasons. It will generally be dealt with by women asking ' Are you sure you are in the correct loo?' and the TIF will hopefully reply, in her obviously female if slightly testosterone-altered voice, 'Please don't worry. I'm female'. Or maybe even say that without prompt whenever using such a space, which hopefully won't be often because unisex spaces will increase. And the women will look at the TIF and see her hands and hips and gait and so on and relax.
In RCCs and other places where virtually all the women have been traumatised by male violence, the service operators have the discretion to treat a very masculine-looking TIF differently to the other women, but she will not be left without the help and support she needs.
I still have a lot of faith in women's natural inclination not to want to frighten other women and I think that very masculine-looking TIFs will seek out unisex spaces.
So yes, everyone uses the toilets for their biological sex or a unisex facility. And some traumatised women will be made more afraid than before genderism took hold (and the TIFs should ponder that), but, hopefully, not as afraid as when every man who wanted to could just use women's facilities.

Maybe I mistakenly thought that being female they would have some empathy with other females. The sort of ‘I know I can’t go in the men’s and and due to my intention to look male I quite possible will upset female children in the ladies, so I will look for a unisex facility instead’ sort of thing. Probably expecting too much I guess.

The unisex facilities that almost everywhere have

I was just thinking, in a related way, that it’s frustrating how many women who claim they are men hate women so much that they want to remove our rights, while many men who claim they are women also despise women and want to remove our rights. It’s almost as if the whole ideology is misogynistic in the extreme.

Various women like Stephen Whittle and James Morton have actively worked behind the scenes, pushing for men to have access to women’s spaces. Understanding for their fellow females is notably absent, which is particularly ironic in Whittle’s case as her father was abusive. Sad she learned to hate women as a result.

It’s Erininthemorn, so I’d take that with Scottish grit lorry’s worth of salt and assume that a big chunk is either very highly dramatised or just plain old bollox.

They are quite clearly women.

I wouldn't say that one of the premises is that people can always tell, so surgery and hormones are useless... It's more that most of the hormonal/surgical interventions are extremely dangerous for the individual health and would not be considered safe in any other branch of medicine.

I'm not sure there have been many - or any - cases where trans-identified females have freaked other women out in the women's toilets. The trans activists are desperately trying to get women to riot because apparently men are using women's facilities, and this will supposedly show how "impractical" it is to have people use facilities according to their biological sex, but transmen just don't convince as men.

All the trans-identified females I've met, who have had some kind of surgery/pharmaceuticals, are very short for men (they're not often the tall as women either), have bum fluff on their faces, have wide hips and a trembly, froggy voice. They tend to wear baggy clothes. They really aren't very masculine and don't look scary at all, just sad.

The solutions are simple anyway, so I'm not sure why some people are in a quandary over this. Depending on jurisdiction, in Kansas they have to use the loos according to their sex, i.e. the women's loos. In the UK, they can use the women's loos or the unisex loos, if they are available. I really doubt any woman is going to be traumatised by seeing one in the women's loos.

I highly doubt anyone here cares if men get bins in their loos.