Are we a cult?

They could have gone for 'trans man' if the TRAs hadn't been so keen to muddy the waters by attaching that label to trans-identifying females.

Which part do you disagree with?

Why not trans-identifying man?

Outstanding reasoning and argumentation, well done

Every person on the planet has a different experience to every other person on the planet. That is life.

I don't treat men who want to be women any differently than men who accept they are men. The men who want to be women can have a language to enable them to talk about it if they want. What they don't get though is to try and make actual women describe themselves as cis women in order to make the men who want to be women feel better.

"It’s HELPFUL to be able to describe specific experiences."

It's not a game of Uno, you can't just pull the reverse card.

A poster made this exact argument yesterday that women need the words we have always used to describe ourselves as a sex class.

Timewise, the turnaround of "steal a GC argument, twist it and turn it to try and use it against them" is fairly impressive, but it lacks originality of thought.

1/10

Is there ever an occasion where a photograph can be used to illustrate a male person behaving creepily. Or should women just not mention it.

This is what you said. Don't see an 'aimed' in there. In fact, it doesn't actually make much sense however it's read. Do you want to have another go?

It's so interesting how "the rules" changes depending on who it is saying it is on here.
"GC" says "don't get your knickers in a twist", it's not misogynistic or sexist.
You can bet though that if a "TRA" or "a man" read anyone who doesn't toe the usual line on here, usually women who get called a man for their opinions it certainly is seen as such.

It "solves the problem" by not solving any problems at all, disadvantaging women, and by being a sexist premise in the first place. It doesn't make it any less sexist for men to appropriate the word women, if you also take away the word men and give it to a tiny percentage of women either.

Are you familiar with the phrase "Two wrongs don't make a right"?

So it doesn't really solve the problem at all does it? In fact it adds in a whole new set of problems and the disadvantages all fall on women of the adult human female kind.

I'm going to ask you again, and just saying "well you could do this" is not a proper answer. Really try and think about it, if you are a woman, I think it's important for you to challenge these sexist beliefs which make you place more importance on male wants over female needs.

Why should women give up a perfectly serviceable word that is commonly used to accurately describe those of us who are adults, and instead take a new sub-set name which is inaccurate and imposed on us by men, so men can have use of the word "woman"?

Why does that benefit any woman of the adult human female kind, or anyone who previously understood the common meaning of "woman" (such as those with English as a second language in a health care notification for example)?

Why don't you think that's just straight up sexist?

You would require women to "budge up" in service to men at a detriment to themselves. How is that feminism again?

See, I generally don't need to describe myself as an 'anything' woman. I'm just a woman. I also don't tend to go round describing myself as heterosexual. In day to day life it's irrelevant whether I'm heterosexual or homosexual. When necessary the objects of my desire have had no problem working out I'm attracted to them.

Last post was tongue in cheek...but I genuinely want to know why you need to describe yourself as anything (beyond form filling).

I will never understand this obsession with labels.

It is confusing on purpose (I know you understand this nicepotoftea, I'm just laying it out plainly for the lurkers).

The whole point is to blur the boundaries between the sexes, which leads to the Balcer situation I linked to upthread.

You don’t think trans women and cis men are having a different experience or being treated differently by society at all? And that it might be useful to have language to talk about that? Ok.

If you read my post again, you'll see I actually said when it's aimed at a "man" (read that usually means anyone who "must be a bloke because they're not in complete agreement with what I'm saying, even though they're actually not a man at all)
Duh!

Pure pearl clutching at this point.

Have you missed all the posts on this thread about the concept of trans misogyny? It describes how misogyny and transphobia intersect in the treatment of trans women specifically.

But why do you need to distinguish between a man and a man who wants to be a woman? Both are still men.

I'm putting this link here.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5566007-have-people-heard-of-andrew-balcer-here

This is where the stupid idiocy of people putting men (who say they are women) in women's prisons leads.

Women and men (who say they are women) are not the same thing at all, and I won't pretend that they are. I am not going to include both sets of people in my use of the word 'woman', whatever some person on the internet thinks.

But a non binary woman who is actually a woman or a non binary woman who is a man?

if everyone is defined according to whether or not they identify with a binary gender, where does that leave people who don't?

I'm not sure where I would be categorised according to this system.

Seems much more simple and inclusive to assume that in a medical context 'man' and 'woman' are neutral terms that refer to sex.

How can it be misogynistic behaviour when the person you're defending is a man? Fred Wallace is a man. No criticism of him can remotely be described as misogynistic.

I genuinely don’t think describing myself as a cis woman is much different from describing myself as heterosexual.

I wouldn’t say ‘BUT IM JUST NORMAL?? Why should I have a word??’ Because that would be wildly homophobic.

It’s HELPFUL to be able to describe specific experiences.

I wonder whether they think there is ever an occasion where a photograph can be used to illustrate a man behaving creepily. Or should women just not mention it.

Well I’d also distinguish between cis men and trans men! You don’t have to use the terminology; I’m just saying it does exist, and it solves the problem someone raised.