Civil servants oppose plans to end trans reassignment leave policy

However a google search seems to suggest that at present you absolutely can claim statutory sick pay for absence from work due to cosmetic surgery, but may not be entitled to enhanced (ie full) pay. So I guess so long as the trans person is treated precisely the same, for their surgeries as others are, it should be fair. Am just stunned that it would cover elective cosmetic surgeries at all. It’s all nuts.

I’m a CS with a disability. In my dept, trans colleagues receive unlimited leave for reasons pertaining to gender reassignment and these absences are deliberately excluded from absence review trigger points. I can have 9 days absence in a rolling 12 month period before I am subject to action under absence management policies. My hospital appts don’t receive paid leave (and shouldn’t) and must be booked either outside of work hours or the time made up. The CS is supposed to foster good relations between communities and these sorts of policies do not do that as the unfairness is obvious.

Thank God you're not running the country.

Assuming you're female (switch it if not): If someone told you at age 8 that soon, you'd go through puberty and grow a penis and beard, and have a voice 2 octaves deeper.. would you have been horrified? Now imagine a doctor gave you a pill and said: don't worry, once you take this pill, you'll 'recognise' that you're male and then be okay with growing a penis.

Would you take the pill? Or fight tooth and nail because you "know" you're female. Because even at that age, you "knew" your gender. We all did.

That's how these people feel. They know from a young age that they're a certain gender, it's just that their bodies don't match. So either operate on their brains (/ provide a pill) or operate on their bodies. But which would you choose? Or just be miserable all your life and commit suicide eventually.

You are lacking not only in empathy, but in basic understanding of the condition and impact on those affected.

They need support and it's probably just the lesser of two evils that we choose to operate on their bodies.

Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

When a male goes through puberty his penis grows and for boys who were born with a micro penis it may suddenly become visible or more obviously a penis.
This does not mean they are suddenly growing a penis that they didn't already have it just means that the one they already had has got bigger

Nobody grows a penis after birth

These boys with 5 alpha 2 reductase deficiency would beg to differ...

It would depend on the employers policy. They couldn’t give full sick pay for normal sickness or illness and not for gender reassignment, but they could for cosmetic surgery. The EA is clear time of for gender reassignment is comparable to time off for sickness/illness, and doesn’t specify cosmetic surgery.

Nobody grows a penis after birth so your entire premise falls down at the 1st point.
Also there is no pill that makes people happy to be their birth sex or not so again you're talking nonsense.
Everybody knows what sex they were born and thinking that you feel like the opposite sex is an erroneous thought process because no male can know what it feels like to be a female they can only assume and asign thought processes to females and then decide that they feel that way too.
What they need is psychiatric help to deal with the underlying mental health conditions that have triggered their body dismorphia and delusional thought processes ie watchful waiting therapy which worked for decades before affirmation therapy came along

Thank God you're not running the country.

Assuming you're female (switch it if not): If someone told you at age 8 that soon, you'd go through puberty and grow a penis and beard, and have a voice 2 octaves deeper.. would you have been horrified? Now imagine a doctor gave you a pill and said: don't worry, once you take this pill, you'll 'recognise' that you're male and then be okay with growing a penis.

Would you take the pill? Or fight tooth and nail because you "know" you're female. Because even at that age, you "knew" your gender. We all did.

That's how these people feel. They know from a young age that they're a certain gender, it's just that their bodies don't match. So either operate on their brains (/ provide a pill) or operate on their bodies. But which would you choose? Or just be miserable all your life and commit suicide eventually.

You are lacking not only in empathy, but in basic understanding of the condition and impact on those affected.

They need support and it's probably just the lesser of two evils that we choose to operate on their bodies.

Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

Until now, transgender employees could take up to 13 weeks of special leave in a rolling 12-month period for medical treatment and recovery related to gender identity without it being counted as sick leave.

The objection as far as I'm concerned is that I don't think anybody should be having surgery for a psychological issue, and providing this very generous paid leave makes it more likely that some civil servants will go down that path. Looking specifically at surgery on the genital area, there's a high risk of post-operative infection and complications, and the end results are really nothing like the real thing. If I ruled the world all that surgery would be banned.

This.

Equality means you treat surgery as you would treat all other surgery or absence for medically related issues.

The policy of 13 weeks no questions asked arguably discriminates against disability as defined under the equality act.

Because it’s elective surgery? Should anyone having a face lift, boob job or hair transplant be entitled to paid leave out of the company or tax payers purse?

Imho no. Not for any of those whether it’s for vanity/cosmetic reasons or to support transition.

Until now, transgender employees could take up to 13 weeks of special leave in a rolling 12-month period for medical treatment and recovery related to gender identity without it being counted as sick leave.

The objection as far as I'm concerned is that I don't think anybody should be having surgery for a psychological issue, and providing this very generous paid leave makes it more likely that some civil servants will go down that path. Looking specifically at surgery on the genital area, there's a high risk of post-operative infection and complications, and the end results are really nothing like the real thing. If I ruled the world all that surgery would be banned.

However a google search seems to suggest that at present you absolutely can claim statutory sick pay for absence from work due to cosmetic surgery, but may not be entitled to enhanced (ie full) pay. So I guess so long as the trans person is treated precisely the same, for their surgeries as others are, it should be fair. Am just stunned that it would cover elective cosmetic surgeries at all. It’s all nuts.

Thank God you're not running the country.

Assuming you're female (switch it if not): If someone told you at age 8 that soon, you'd go through puberty and grow a penis and beard, and have a voice 2 octaves deeper.. would you have been horrified? Now imagine a doctor gave you a pill and said: don't worry, once you take this pill, you'll 'recognise' that you're male and then be okay with growing a penis.

Would you take the pill? Or fight tooth and nail because you "know" you're female. Because even at that age, you "knew" your gender. We all did.

That's how these people feel. They know from a young age that they're a certain gender, it's just that their bodies don't match. So either operate on their brains (/ provide a pill) or operate on their bodies. But which would you choose? Or just be miserable all your life and commit suicide eventually.

You are lacking not only in empathy, but in basic understanding of the condition and impact on those affected.

They need support and it's probably just the lesser of two evils that we choose to operate on their bodies.

Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

Because it’s elective surgery? Should anyone having a face lift, boob job or hair transplant be entitled to paid leave out of the company or tax payers purse?

Imho no. Not for any of those whether it’s for vanity/cosmetic reasons or to support transition.

Gender reassignment discrimination: cases of absence from work
(1)This section has effect for the purposes of the application of Part 5 (work) to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(2)A person (A) discriminates against a transsexual person (B) if, in relation to an absence of B's that is because of gender reassignment, A treats B less favourably than A would treat B if—

(a)B's absence was because of sickness or injury, or

(b)B's absence was for some other reason and it is not reasonable for B to be treated less favourably.

(3)A person's absence is because of gender reassignment if it is because the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone the process (or part of the process) mentioned in section 7(1).

If the policy is changed then the transperson will be subject to exactly the same terms and treatment as they would if they had cancer or required treatment due to a disability so there would be no discrimination on the basis of GR

Nobody grows a penis after birth so your entire premise falls down at the 1st point.
Also there is no pill that makes people happy to be their birth sex or not so again you're talking nonsense.
Everybody knows what sex they were born and thinking that you feel like the opposite sex is an erroneous thought process because no male can know what it feels like to be a female they can only assume and asign thought processes to females and then decide that they feel that way too.
What they need is psychiatric help to deal with the underlying mental health conditions that have triggered their body dismorphia and delusional thought processes ie watchful waiting therapy which worked for decades before affirmation therapy came along

@Hoardasurass why are you ignoring my reply?

You are very arrogant for someone completely wrong. That’s not a thing under the Equality Act. Section 16 covers discrimination for time off related to gender reassignment. You can’t treat someone taking time off for gender reassignment any less favourably than someone taking time off for sickness or injury.

Thank God you're not running the country.

Assuming you're female (switch it if not): If someone told you at age 8 that soon, you'd go through puberty and grow a penis and beard, and have a voice 2 octaves deeper.. would you have been horrified? Now imagine a doctor gave you a pill and said: don't worry, once you take this pill, you'll 'recognise' that you're male and then be okay with growing a penis.

Would you take the pill? Or fight tooth and nail because you "know" you're female. Because even at that age, you "knew" your gender. We all did.

That's how these people feel. They know from a young age that they're a certain gender, it's just that their bodies don't match. So either operate on their brains (/ provide a pill) or operate on their bodies. But which would you choose? Or just be miserable all your life and commit suicide eventually.

You are lacking not only in empathy, but in basic understanding of the condition and impact on those affected.

They need support and it's probably just the lesser of two evils that we choose to operate on their bodies.

Definitely doesn't apply to children and I never agree with that - it should be illegal for kids.

Eh? Male children have a penis all their lives, they don’t suddenly get one at puberty. What a bizarre view of human development.

What is your objection to people being allowed time off to recover from surgery?