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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Janice Turner in the Times today

34 replies

13RidgmontRoad · Today 05:26

“It is entirely feasible for everyone, women and trans people, to enjoy swimming and sport. It requires no more than practical compromises, repurposed spaces, a few more gender neutral loos. But this would mean acknowledging biological sex exists, that sometimes female safety takes precedence over male feelings, and that the mantra “trans women are women” is not literally true.

“The Greens — plus some Labour folk and Lib Dems — will never concede this. (Nor will many trans activists, including groups like Bash Back, whose members pledge to defend their right to women’s spaces via threats and violence.) They prefer to live in a state of perpetual outrage about the impossibility of something they could instantly solve, even if it means escalating division and fear.”

Clear-minded and articulate as ever. I live in one of the affected councils and seeing our newly-elected councillors froth over this while umpteen public service, repair and welfare issues sail down the river has been quite something.

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/posturing-council-culture-war-over-single-sex-spaces-f9tlq8tcr

Verifying Device

https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/article/posturing-council-culture-war-over-single-sex-spaces-f9tlq8tcr

OP posts:
Imdunfer · Today 08:30

MoistVonL · Today 08:17

What about using the currently available mixed sex changing facilities that allows trans identifying people to use the pool is 'making compromises' in your view, Imdunfer?

Yes, not being allowed to use the single weekly women-only session might put some transwomen out, but given that the means not a single Muslim woman can use the pool at the only session available to them, that's hardly a big ask.
Every remaining other swim session is there for transwomen and transmen to use.

I don't understand your question but I find it unhelpful to the discussion to be so aggressive in the way you wrote it.

What do you consider to be wrong about trans identifying people using mixed sex changing rooms? She is clear that they should not be in women only swimming sessions. If the women only swimming session is in a facility where the changing rooms are shared with, for example, the gym, then clearly that must also apply to the changing room.

Keeptoiletssafe · Today 08:28

I don’t like the term gender neutral. It should be unisex or universal. Gender neutral has no definition in building regs.

I would say a women’s toilet is gender neutral as it includes all genders who are the female sex.

Shedmistress · Today 08:26

Imdunfer · Today 08:07

She's very clear that it needs to be trans people.

Male ones or female ones?

MoistVonL · Today 08:17

Imdunfer · Today 08:07

She's very clear that it needs to be trans people.

What about using the currently available mixed sex changing facilities that allows trans identifying people to use the pool is 'making compromises' in your view, Imdunfer?

Yes, not being allowed to use the single weekly women-only session might put some transwomen out, but given that the means not a single Muslim woman can use the pool at the only session available to them, that's hardly a big ask.
Every remaining other swim session is there for transwomen and transmen to use.

Imdunfer · Today 08:07

Rightsraptor · Today 07:40

I'd like to know who will be making the compromises.

She's very clear that it needs to be trans people.

WhereAreWeNow · Today 07:55

Very good article. It's all so performative, isn't it? What do any of these council declarations mean in practice?

Rightsraptor · Today 07:40

I'd like to know who will be making the compromises.

SodThisHeadache · Today 06:06

Admirably clear as usual from JT. I am also in one of those boroughs ruled by performative, authoritarian teenagers.

Big Orthodox Jewish population they don't give a shiny one about offending, let alone women and children. Let's see.

EmpressaurusKitty · Today 05:30

Here’s a sharetoken link. This makes me all the more thankful to live somewhere that’s actually taking the law seriously.

www.thetimes.com/article/77fbe275-dc42-4617-9d55-1592d5e1135f?shareToken=e2415dd1a19513c133556ff85259e535

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