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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

If the majority of women voted in favour of self ID?

208 replies

MaIeficent · Yesterday 00:45

What would you do?

Completely hypothetical question. I'm not so interested in hearing about the stats/reality or that 'it would never happen'. Just hypothetically what people's stance would be if it did.

I'm conflicted as I don't think I could ever be in favour but I simultaneously support the right of women to make their own choices even if I disagree with them.

Would you defer to them in recognition that this is the decision that makes women as a whole happiest or would you soldier on and try and impose the wishes of a minority group onto a majority of dissenting women?

OP posts:
Redintoothandclaw · Yesterday 01:19

I don't see that sharing a hospital ward or gym changing rooms with transwomen actually benefits any woman. Some may not mind doing so or may want to put transwomen's feelings before their own. I don't see why that should override the serious issues that some other women and children have with sharing - lack of safeguarding, trauma, conflict with religion, etc.

TransParentlyAnnoyed · Yesterday 01:18

MaIeficent · Yesterday 00:45

What would you do?

Completely hypothetical question. I'm not so interested in hearing about the stats/reality or that 'it would never happen'. Just hypothetically what people's stance would be if it did.

I'm conflicted as I don't think I could ever be in favour but I simultaneously support the right of women to make their own choices even if I disagree with them.

Would you defer to them in recognition that this is the decision that makes women as a whole happiest or would you soldier on and try and impose the wishes of a minority group onto a majority of dissenting women?

There is no registry of trans people. All of them self-ID, no matter what documents they hold..

Same way I self-ID as disabled. I don't claim any benefits, but I definitely have irreparable nerve damage which badly affects my mobility.

I self-ID as straight, too. And non-binary. (As of yet, no one's come round to put a stamp on my arm confirming this, but give it time.)

So the question's ridiculous. Not only does it ignore that most cis women aren't transphobic, but self-ID is what we all do. All the time.

I'm not having anyone tell me I'm not disabled because I don't have the right paperwork. Or that my son isn't a trans guy because his identity doesn't (yet) match all his documents.

Most women know that men attack us where we want and the authorities will do nothing. Those poor girls attacked at that Army base had instructors walking in on them dressing and teenage boys invading their rooms. See also that awful case of the serial sex attacked who was given freedom.to rape and kill more women because misogyny, patriarchy and the massively underfunded justice system which keeps calling women.

There is no social contract, there are no safe public spaces, and attacking trans people is a massive distraction from confronting the reality of male violence. Pretending any man needs to transition to 'access' women is insulting our intelligence.

BettyBooper · Yesterday 01:18

If the majority of women were in support of mixed sex spaces, the minority who want single sex spaces should still have those provisions.

If the majority want mixed sex, fair enough. But that does not negate the necessity of single sex spaces for those who want it.

It's right to accommodate everyone, even minorities, right?

(All we're asking for is single sex stuff. Sometimes it's like we're asking for the moon on a stick)

Original poster
MaIeficent · Yesterday 01:17

I was under the impression that the majority of women supported social transition but were against legal reform. However, from googling it I'm not so sure now. It seems that continental Europe and the wider world has quite differing views, obviously excluding places with strongly patriarchal/dictatorial governments.

Google AI tells me that:

  • Spain holds some of the highest overall public acceptance rates globally and 'voted heavily in favor of progressive social reforms' with younger, intersectional feminist groups strongly defending it.
  • The Nordics were pioneers in self-ID with regional Eurobarometer and domestic polls evidencing exceptionally high support for self-determination. Societal norms regarding gender equality and individual autonomy are deeply institutionalised, leading to a broad female consensus that legal transition should be depathologised.
  • The majority of German women support the self-identification law, known in Germany as the Selbstbestimmungsgesetz (Self-Determination Act), with extensive polling showing that women consistently express higher rates of approval for the legislation than men. 51% of German women surveyed stated they approve of or completely support the Self-Determination Act.Only 31% of German women rejected the law.
  • In Ireland, public polling (such as standard Ipsos/MRBI data on social issues) indicates that Irish women, particularly those who drove the landmark abortion and marriage equality referendums, overwhelmingly favor self-ID.
  • in Latin America coalitions of women activists explicitly tied transgender liberation to their wider fights against gender-based violence and patriarchy. Consequently, self-ID enjoys robust, mainstream support among female activists and voters in these nations.
  • In sharp contrast to continental Europe and Latin America, the gender gap operates differently in the UK and US, where self-ID remains a major cultural flashpoint. However, polling by YouGov UK reveals that young British women (18–24) overwhelmingly support self-ID.

It's as yet unclear whether the age disparity in the UK shows that women change their views as they grow older, or whether this is just a generational difference of view and the consensus may shift as this generation takes over and passes their views onto their children.

OP posts:
ElenOfTheWays · Yesterday 01:11

In light of the SCJ I can't see the point of the GRC anymore, since it doesn't make a man into a woman for the purposes of the equality act or give them access to women's spaces or services. If men want to self ID into a GRC I can't see why I, or any other woman should care really.
Far from enabling self ID they might as well get rid of it as it's effectively useless now.

Original poster
MaIeficent · Yesterday 00:54

Cattenberg · Yesterday 00:49

Can women consent on behalf of other women? Even if a woman is happy to waive her "rights" to female-only sports teams/changing rooms/toilets, surely other women's rights aren't hers to give away?

I'm inclined to agree that nobody should give away other people's rights. I'd also be conflicted if the choice was in my hands and I knew my preferred choice would be against the wishes of most women.

OP posts:
pizzaandchips2078 · Yesterday 00:53

Cattenberg · Yesterday 00:49

Can women consent on behalf of other women? Even if a woman is happy to waive her "rights" to female-only sports teams/changing rooms/toilets, surely other women's rights aren't hers to give away?

That's quite a interesting point. I would also say isn't it also the same with brexit which party in power etc.
I don't know how I would feel tbh

Cattenberg · Yesterday 00:49

Can women consent on behalf of other women? Even if a woman is happy to waive her "rights" to female-only sports teams/changing rooms/toilets, surely other women's rights aren't hers to give away?