If the majority of women voted in favour of self ID?

I was confused about this too!

It was the Denton's playbook in action -

https://spectator.com/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

In particular -

‘In Ireland, Denmark and Norway, changes to the law on legal gender recognition were put through at the same time as other more popular reforms such as marriage equality legislation. This provided a veil of protection, particularly in Ireland, where marriage equality was strongly supported, but gender identity remained a more difficult issue to win public support for.’ (Kirkup's bolds)

Thanks for the link, even in 2020 most people said NO, and yet people like the OP are still peddling the tripe that 'most women' support this.
Fortunately there are people on MN that have memories like elephants, and like the internet, they never forget. 😂
It would appear that the majority of women will not be voting for self ID OP, so your question is moot.

Exactly. The difference between 'do you think people should be allowed to self identify into the gender they feel most comfortable in' and 'should these same people be allowed to access single sex rape crisis services on the basis of self id'

https://wingsoverscotland.com/transforming-the-question/

Edited to add - the link above is from 2020. Other polls since then have shown less support for self id generally, not more.

You post some statements about views on self-id in other European countries but post no links or data for them. I'm a bit sceptical as to these claims of widespread support amongst women for self-id in these countries. There used to be similar polls that showed women in favour of "trans rights", self-id or men in women's loos in the UK, but we know how those were always framed in a certain way or didn't specify the actual issues, so people weren't sure what they were expressing an opinion on other than "rights". Context played a big role in how these "majority opinions" in favour of "trans rights" were achieved, and I'm sure the same is similar for the unspecified foreign opinion polls you found.

In any case, you are non-binary so you are not a woman so your own question doesn't even pertain to yourself. In this "majority of women" are you including biological men who claim to identify as women?

What? You mean imagine there was a Brexit-like referendum and people voted in favour of removing all single-sex spaces, OP? Seriously? I’d hope that I would be channelling my inner Elizabeth Fry.

I'm confused. You are non-binary yet you claim to be a woman. Non-binary means you see yourself as neither a man nor a woman, so how can you be a woman? Similarly, how can you be straight if you are non-binary and hence neither a woman nor a man? Straight means attracted to the opposite sex, but you claim to have no sex, so there is no such thing as straight or gay in this context.

I can tell you most women are not in favour of self id in those countries once they realise how bad men can abuse the law. There are already many examples in Spain, Norway, the Netherlands and other countries of this happening and then women realise how screwed over they actually are.
Acceptance is degrading in all those countries, not just for the grifters and abusers but also the people who actually fully medically transitioned and are now left in limbo. Awful situation.

Would they be happy to impose their will on an unhappy majority because "they don't know what's best for them"

They're not actuslly going to be unhappy are they?

Noone would be going round saying 'I'm so sad my miscarriage support group doesn't have any males in it'
'What our gym showers really need are more cocks waving round, i cant believe those terfs have banned them'

Its an "er, ok I guess, i should be kind" from them rather than a "yes please!"

And as a parallel, i would also still support abortion rights even if a majority of women voted against them - it's easy for a majority to think they'll never need a right (eg to a single sex space, to trial by jury) until they do

I wouldn't be pissing in a bottle and throwing it all over myself, vandalising any MP's offices, shouting 'witch' in the face of my opponent, throwing smoke flares into an enclosed space, carrying a placard with a guillotine on it, launching myself at a woman and punching her (then insisting she refer to me as 'queen of the Cats' in court), letting insects loose in a hall where people are having peaceful discussions about their sexuality, stopping anyone from watching a film they'd made that put forward their viewpoint, getting the police to knock on their doors and intimidate them for lawful speech, er.... you get the picture

In how many of those countries was there a clear question posed to women? The usual strategy seems to be a) pass self ID without any vote and with a side of 'This is just like making things fair as we did for gays ', b) make correctly sexing (aka misgendering) illegal and prosecute. This then makes it impossible to go back and protest. Or even talk openly.

I do not think that a) could happen now. Anywhere. There would be challenge.
So I really do wonder whether there will be any more self-ID laws incoming.
If there are then it will perhaps be as,a result of non-binary trans self-ID or gender fluidity expansion. But legislating for that will be a problem.

Exactly!

How could we? Was my first thought too.

Then I thought hang on! What does this poster mean by "impose our will", exactly?

Edited to add when I read that post, I also thought every accusation is an admission isn't it. As you say, we don't operate like that. We aren't TRAs.

Laws can be changed and treaties can be left, they are all just political constructs, and political parties that ignore the will of the people can become irrelevant to the people.
Unless it's a dictatorship, of one sort or another, then laws and treaties are irrelevant because authoritarian regimes don't pay any attention to them. See Russia and the treaty it had with Ukraine.

Thank you for explaining to everyone that you have literally no idea about the necessity, implications & principles pertaining to constitutional law.

Agree with this entirely. 'impose your will' is pretty loaded, and contains an assumption about how women like us operate. That's not how we do things. How could we anyway?

I wasn't talking about the case, I was talking about the general public opinion wrt self ID in these countries which is heavily influenced by the lack of open debate caused by prohibitive legislation. Which is something you might have figured out if you'd actually followed a thread rather than flap about like in some frantic whack-a-mole game.

@MaIeficent

"Would they be happy to impose their will on an unhappy majority because "they don't know what's best for them".

How could we impose our will?

Edited for typo

Yes. I was responding to your comment about Brazil & why public opinion was irrelevant.

Have you not understood the question in the opening post?

Rights are often embedded in law & in many countries that's constitutional law or signatories to human rights law that's almost impossible to change so popularity contests aren't relevant.

Good point, the last time they had a survey regarding the death penalty in the UK, the majority were in favour of it and all the political parties recoiled in horror. 😱

@MaIeficent - Fair point. But if I'm not mistaken, self ID in these countries means men using women's spaces and women seem to be mostly in favour.

You are mistaken, in the countries where self ID has been imposed on the population women weren't asked if they supported it and they haven't been asked if they support it since it's been introduced. You can't claim women seem to be mostly in favour if nobody's bothered to ask them if they are or not.

If a referendum was held in all these countries about whether or not there should be self ID and the results was an overwhelming NO, would the OP support the withdrawal of the manifestly stupid idea.

These are all countries where it has been made near impossible to discuss this issue openly, see the two year jail sentence for misgendering in Brazil recently. I bet if a proper open debate were conducted before a binding poll numbers would change.

You could say the same about women who want private cubicles & are against open change rooms regardless of sex.

Logistics & practicalities often determine rights. See: open borders.

I’ve understood that the headlines place me in a minority on this issue since 2015 or so.

The difficulty I have is that in the conversations I have had 1:1 with women who would definitely not self-identify as GC, there’s a big group where there’s hardly any difference in their views from mine. I don’t understand how they see their own views or how they would conceive of the vote they make but I dont think their vote invalidates what I believe.

The fundamental bedrock for me is that being female or male is not an identity and therefore the entire concept of ‘self identification’ can’t work.

I have a friend in Portugal who was completely unaware that the government had brought in self id because T campaigners had , following the ascribed playbook, tied it into basic LGB rights. When I explained what it meant she was horrified and said most ppl had no idea because it hadn't really been talked about and that ppl were in favour of LGB ppl having equivalent rights to straight ppl that of course trans ppl shouldn't be discriminated against and that was as far as it went. Further discussion with her colleagues showed that no they hadn't really understood self ID had been brought in either

so I'm very sceptical of any survey which shows women in countries with self ID are widely supportive because in my experience most ppl actually have no idea what ut really means beyond "oh yes of course ppl can dress how they like abd of course we shouldn't be mean to them"