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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Corporate misogyny

22 replies

SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 16:15

Can anyone see a problem with this? Please take the miss out of, and regressively stereotype, mothers in order to help us sell washing machines

You'll need to go on the Instagram post to read comments.

I get the joke.

I don't get how it's acceptable for a big corporate to request the lampooning women/mothers.

Corporate misogyny
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SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 16:16

Image being checked

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BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · Yesterday 16:31

I'm not on Insta, so can't.see.it, but you can complain the the ASA. They have rules about sexism in advertising, and their remit includes social media ads.

Freda69 · Yesterday 16:35

Just checked out some of their other videos on IG and they’re all pretty cringeworthy.
And all the comments underneath them relate to appalling service.
If I managed Curry’s I’d get a new marketing team.

SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 16:49

Some examples

Corporate misogyny
Corporate misogyny
Corporate misogyny
Corporate misogyny
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SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 22:31

I don't know why this has gotten under my skin so much, but I'll rant away here even if it's just me!

I don't know what exactly the 'fb mum' trope is supposed to and I obviously realise it's supposed to be light-hearted in this context. I, however, don't think that's what is really happening. It just seems permission has been given in for an insidious misogynistic free for all.

Really, people are being asked to mock and judge a 'certain type' of mother/woman. The implications of the 'jokes' are that 'fb mums', aka mother and women, are a bit thick and uncultured, superficial, and some some a bit xenophobic.

It's particularly grating that the post is selling washing machines. Any insight into the domestic labour that falls mainly to women? Of course not, that's isn't funny is it?

There are lots of women who have been quick to join in reductive and condescending stereotyping of mothers. I guess they need to show they are in on the joke and not one of 'them'

It seems intersectional feminism doesn't apply to working class mothers.

Can you image, if the marketing team chose an alternative international based collective group.

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Baileyonice · Yesterday 23:11

Given no doubt this 'personality type' exists would you be more comfortable if it were described in a more gender neutral term?

Some would say 'Karen' is gender neutral like 'dude' given plenty of blokes are 'karen' like. I often refer to my husband as a 'karen' for this reason.

Or maybe just lean into slurs a bit more to claim ownership like black people do for the 'n' word or women do for 'b or C*?

MassiveWordSalad · Yesterday 23:27

Baileyonice · Yesterday 23:11

Given no doubt this 'personality type' exists would you be more comfortable if it were described in a more gender neutral term?

Some would say 'Karen' is gender neutral like 'dude' given plenty of blokes are 'karen' like. I often refer to my husband as a 'karen' for this reason.

Or maybe just lean into slurs a bit more to claim ownership like black people do for the 'n' word or women do for 'b or C*?

Edited

There’s nothing gender neutral about “Karen”. It’s the pejorative use of a woman’s name that is used in attempts to silence and ridicule women for daring to speak up or complain about anything. It’s also ageist as a woman named Karen is highly likely to be middle aged. The fact that you call your husband a “Karen” doesn’t change this.

Baileyonice · Yesterday 23:29

MassiveWordSalad · Yesterday 23:27

There’s nothing gender neutral about “Karen”. It’s the pejorative use of a woman’s name that is used in attempts to silence and ridicule women for daring to speak up or complain about anything. It’s also ageist as a woman named Karen is highly likely to be middle aged. The fact that you call your husband a “Karen” doesn’t change this.

You could say the same for the 'N' word. And shock horror, culture isn't unchanging.

MaIeficent · Yesterday 23:35

MassiveWordSalad · Yesterday 23:27

There’s nothing gender neutral about “Karen”. It’s the pejorative use of a woman’s name that is used in attempts to silence and ridicule women for daring to speak up or complain about anything. It’s also ageist as a woman named Karen is highly likely to be middle aged. The fact that you call your husband a “Karen” doesn’t change this.

Men get called different names. A 'Chad' or a 'Kev' etc.

MassiveWordSalad · Yesterday 23:42

MaIeficent · Yesterday 23:35

Men get called different names. A 'Chad' or a 'Kev' etc.

Yes and they don’t have the same pervasive effect as “Karen” does. I haven’t seen any articles written debating “Chad” or “Kev” as a misandrist term, or a novelty “Chad’s Diner” where you can go to be harangued by a male waiter while you eat your tea, or an automatic calling out of a “Kev” by numerous people when a man comments on social media.

SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 23:44

Auto correct at the end I mean internet-based not international!

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MassiveWordSalad · Yesterday 23:53

Baileyonice · Yesterday 23:29

You could say the same for the 'N' word. And shock horror, culture isn't unchanging.

There is no consensus that “reclaiming” the n-word is a good thing. Culture changes, but many black people still feel that particular word is too entrenched in the history of slavery and racism to ever be stripped of its connotations. And I’d like to see a show of hands here of who wants to reclaim “bitch” or “cunt” for themselves. We’d all like to reclaim “woman”, though.

SecretCriticalThinker · Yesterday 23:57

For men I suppose a similarly racist/pejorative term, historically used to refer the Irish, is a 'Mick'. I presume it was supposed to imply the Irish were uncultured, unintelligent not deserving of respect and dignity. For a long time, the Irish were expected to laugh along.

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SecretCriticalThinker · Today 00:08

@Baileyonice

Calm down dear?

If the only way a joke can be funny is to coerce or demand the subject of it get on board and 'reclaim that slur you stupid little bitch'. Then I think we need to ask some questions.

Also please remember this particular example is all about making advertising! It's not like it's political satire speaking truth to power, is it.

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Baileyonice · Today 00:20

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 00:08

@Baileyonice

Calm down dear?

If the only way a joke can be funny is to coerce or demand the subject of it get on board and 'reclaim that slur you stupid little bitch'. Then I think we need to ask some questions.

Also please remember this particular example is all about making advertising! It's not like it's political satire speaking truth to power, is it.

Edited

The french are historically renowned for successfully using humour & satire to poke holes in their oppressors. Gwyneth does a great job here too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pear_(caricature)

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https://youtu.be/tiK9pcuQnZ0?si=wFB3s62fPsCW59B4

MassiveWordSalad · Today 00:33

Baileyonice · Today 00:20

The french are historically renowned for successfully using humour & satire to poke holes in their oppressors. Gwyneth does a great job here too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pear_(caricature)

Can you explain how your examples of satire relate to Currys encouraging people to mock middle-aged mothers while they advertise washing machines and cookers?

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 00:45

@Baileyonice

A massive corporation asking for members of the public to stereotype and take piss out of 'Facebook mums' (explicitly meaning women, fairly overtly suggesting this group are less in numerous ways) in order to generate clicks and advertising is quite a far stretch from 'The French' mocking a King...

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Baileyonice · Today 00:46

Pearl clutching isn't going to change sexist/racist/homophobic views. But taking control of a narrative can & this is evidenced by the 'b' & 'c' word now being weaponised against men….to the point they even use it against each other. Gywnth's satirical version of a sexist rap song is an example of this.

"Reclaiming words, when done effectively, is all about power, Thorne tells me. “Reappropriation of ethnic and sexual slurs starts as an act of bravado by a few of the oppressed, then may become an empowering mechanism for a much wider community. It’s pleasingly ironic that those discriminated against have learned the Orwellian trick employed by the state and the establishment of hijacking everyday language (as in ‘doublespeak’) for their own nefarious purposes. Alternative discourse ousts and replaces the discourses of power.”
Paul Baker, professor of English Language at Lancaster University, agrees. “Control language and you control the society,” he says.
There are some interesting successful examples. If you see the new Meryl Streep film, pause to consider that “suffragette” itself is a feminist-reclaimed word. It was first used as a term of ridicule by – of course – the Daily Mail (coined by journalist Charles E Hands). Women reclaimed and owned the word, hardening the G of suffragette to emphasise their ambition – not just to campaign for the right to vote, but to get it.
So reclaiming words is not a new phenomenon. Thorne points out: “Reversing pejoratives has a long history going back to cavalier, sans-culotte, Tory and Whig.”

https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2015/oct/30/power-grab-reclaiming-words-can-be-such-a-bitch

Power grab: reclaiming words can be such a bitch

From suffragette to queer, the pejorative force of words can change. But reclaiming them has had mixed success

https://www.theguardian.com/media/mind-your-language/2015/oct/30/power-grab-reclaiming-words-can-be-such-a-bitch

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 01:30

@Baileyonice I wonder if your perspective isn't a bit could bit pearl-clutchy? (I've just reclaimed that one.)

Unfortunately, I don't think the type of 'Facebook mums' being mocked in the Curry's pile-on have the media contacts, resources or time to 'take control of the narrative' as your suggest. They are busy taking care of children/elderly parents, navigating increasingly complex systems for SEND, benefits, food banks, temporary housing, dealing with sexism in life and in the work place, carrying crippling mental loads, dealing with anxiety/depression/PND, offering support and compassion to others, feeding their family in a cost of living crisis, protecting their kids from online harm, and trying to get the laundry done somewhere in between all of that.

If it was as simple as knocking up a satirical fruit cartoon I guarantee it would have been done it long ago.

I don't think it's okay for a massive corporation to utilise the shitty status quo for laughs and advertising and to organise a massive punch down. It's depressing there are so many useful idiots champing at the bit to join in.

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Baileyonice · Today 01:51

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 01:30

@Baileyonice I wonder if your perspective isn't a bit could bit pearl-clutchy? (I've just reclaimed that one.)

Unfortunately, I don't think the type of 'Facebook mums' being mocked in the Curry's pile-on have the media contacts, resources or time to 'take control of the narrative' as your suggest. They are busy taking care of children/elderly parents, navigating increasingly complex systems for SEND, benefits, food banks, temporary housing, dealing with sexism in life and in the work place, carrying crippling mental loads, dealing with anxiety/depression/PND, offering support and compassion to others, feeding their family in a cost of living crisis, protecting their kids from online harm, and trying to get the laundry done somewhere in between all of that.

If it was as simple as knocking up a satirical fruit cartoon I guarantee it would have been done it long ago.

I don't think it's okay for a massive corporation to utilise the shitty status quo for laughs and advertising and to organise a massive punch down. It's depressing there are so many useful idiots champing at the bit to join in.

I think the research shows more women comment on posts on facebook than men & given facebook has a reputation for over simplistic & conspiratorial outrage posting I can see where there's a kernel of truth to the claim of 'face book mums' but I would push back & say its the reverse for twitter with 'crank'/incel/racist male posters being rife. In that sense its going to be an uphill battle to dispell negative stereotypes about women…even with humour. Unfortunately whatever group uses social media they are more likely to cop the brunt of its negative reputation.

I personally don't have much respect for the quality of commentary on the major social media platforms so unless the standard improves they get the reputation they deserve.

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 02:39

@Baileyonice What do you think is the 'kernel of truth to the claim of face book mums' as you've put it? I'm really curious because I had not heard the phrase it before. And isn't the point of the Curry's post is the opposite of dispelling negative stereotypes, for laughs, clicks, profit...

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Baileyonice · Today 02:51

SecretCriticalThinker · Today 02:39

@Baileyonice What do you think is the 'kernel of truth to the claim of face book mums' as you've put it? I'm really curious because I had not heard the phrase it before. And isn't the point of the Curry's post is the opposite of dispelling negative stereotypes, for laughs, clicks, profit...

That more females post on facebook & that face book is renowned for 'unsophisticated' outrage commentary is the kernal of truth that is weaponised against females as a group.

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