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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Supporting my gender non-conforming daughter through puberty and trans feelings

39 replies

Taytoface · Yesterday 09:01

I knew this was coming. Have done for years. I have a ND, gender non conforming 11 y.o. daughter, going through pretty early puberty. Got her period when she was 10, which she has dealt with really well.

First she said she was NB. I nodded and said that's nice dear.
Now, in the wake of the holy month of Pride, she is saying she thinks she is trans.
She is also clearly uncomfortable about her developing body.

We have limited time on devices and locked them down as much as we can. (After discovering fucking Spotify is as bad as you tube).

She is going to secondary in September. It is an all girls school, but she was excited to see the 'trans kids' at induction day. (I very much hope these are female, that is a battle I could do without fighting).

I am just nodding along to the trans stuff, but she has become so self conscious about her breasts, always in hoodies, even is this weather, and won't wear any support. She completely shuts down when I try to talk to her about it.

I do want to help her feel more comfy in her body. Any advice?

OP posts:
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ProfessorInkling · Yesterday 19:38

You have time and parental power on your side.

Get her offline, find an activity you can do together, immerse yourselves in it. I wish I’d taken it as seriously at this age because it gets harder as they get older.

Present it as a family change - we are all spending too much time on devices so are doing XYZ about it.

Spend as much 1:1 time as you can. Share her interests, learn about them. Be her go-to buddy.

What they share is usually the tip of the iceberg. Do not dismiss it. Good luck.

MAW1993 · Yesterday 19:31

I suffered from gender dysphoria from being a young child and transitioned once I turned 18. Due to my persistence and outcome, I don't know whether you will welcome my advice but I thought I would offer it anyway in case it is of any help.

I'd say avoid imposing any gender stereotypes on her and let her dress in boy's clothes and pursue traditionally male interests if that is what suits her. Regarding support, maybe a practical sports bra would be more acceptable to her than a traditional bra?

Ask her about her feelings and what makes her feel she is trans and listen openly and without judgement. Gently but regularly reinforce the notion that girls can do, like and be anyone they want to be and that she isn't restricted by her sex.

If she starts talking about physical interventions then obviously that is worrying but I think it's important you remain calm and measured in response. You could say something like 'I understand you feel very strongly about this but I think we need to do some research first'. Then you could explain the risks associated with puberty blockers once armed with the facts and why she must wait until she is fully grown.

Let her know that you love her and will always love her regardless of how she identifies, dresses or presents herself. Make it clear you want what is best for her and while you might disagree on some topics, you are only motivated by what is in her best interests.

Encourage her to find activities she finds joy in. Particularly if you have restricted access to devices, find hobbies or activities to fill the gaps in her time. Outdoor sports and activities are particularly calming and therapeutic for almost all young people.

Let her know that puberty is a difficult time for everybody and feeling uncomfortable and out of sorts with your body is a very common experience. Explain how most people become more comfortable with the changes as they get older and it's a matter of patience and self acceptance.

Regardless of the topic of conversation, try to approach it with openness and genuine curiosity regarding why she thinks or feels a certain way. I understand the desire to immediately push back on issues you find problematic but it's important to keep lines of communication open. You want to prevent her becoming defensive, shutting down and refusing to speak to you about what is on her mind.

Wishing you the best.

Matildatoldsuchdreadfullies · Yesterday 19:06

I can’t help with any of the real issues OP, but as an alternative to bras, could you get vests with built in support? Uniqlo do a wide range. One of my DDs has completely gone over to these (she says it suits her lazy personality - she only has to put on one item of clothing, rather than the effort of putting on two!).

Edit to add question mark.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Yesterday 18:57

Taytoface · Yesterday 15:39

Can I ask what bras she liked?

DD also thinks she is gay. No issue there. She has a proud dyke cousin, who has rejected all the gender crap. I might get her to pay a visit over the summer. She might talk more openly to her.

I have been very clear over the years on how oppressive gender roles are. We are a very gender non conforming house hold, I have amazing women in my life so she has some great role models.

This ideology is so fucking pervasive. Nothing else is fed to kids like this is. Not views and heath and fitness, reproductive rights, disability rights, women's rights. Nothing else is rammed down their throat in the same way. I have been snooping more on her Internet use, Spotify fed her video after video of propaganda until I shut it off.

Have you used the words ‘gender non conforming’ with her? ‘You’re gender non conforming, like loads of cool people . There are lots of gender non conforming lesbians, you’re a free thinker, not buying into categories and boxes that are fashionable, but finding your own way to who you want to be’ etc.

I dislike labels and boxes, but kids need a tribe and better that it’s a healthy one than the trans bandwagon.

Happymchappyface · Yesterday 18:45

Emma Pickett has a puberty book focused on breasts. It’s called the breast book and aimed at this age group. There is a chapter about being a trans man (but can skip if you want)

I like that the main focus is on what breasts are for…. Feeding babies and the cool way they do that. The aim is make young people feel confident about their breasts.

NumberTheory · Yesterday 18:33

One of my DDs was very similar. ND, early periods, hating her changing body. etc. I tried to follow a watchful waiting type of playbook, though did (mainly) use they/them pronouns, at her request. Didn't challenge her at all, but made sure there was space/examples/etc. for her to be female and not be "girly" (though she actually seemed a really typical girl in so many ways, but I think she felt quite rejected by a lot of girls because of her ND).

My philosophy was that it's generally better not to set up in opposition as I think that just pushes them to find "support" from ideological idiots online.

One thing I did was start to talk a lot about diversity and social norms in a fairly meta sense. I talked to her about my own feelings on gender - that it's something pushed on me, not something I identify with - and that you don't have to buy into all of society's norms to live within it happily. But more generally I talked to her about the role of conformity in building trust and social cohesion and how all groups use it. That if you want diversity you need tolerance and acceptance of competing views and to be able to sit with conflict and ambiguity without feeling threatened by it. Also that developing a wide variety of different friendship groups gives you the most space to be yourself.

When the binder issue came up I found queer friendly advice pages that pointed out problems with binders and recommended sports bras instead. The link I found is dead now, but there may be something similar out there if you look.

She also had OCD and depression, the signs of which were there before the gender issues. I put time in finding therapists who would deal with the depression and OCD without seeing it as coming from her gender issues. I really wanted to avoid her getting therapy for gender issues as I suspect that really just reinforces it. It wasn't hard, most wanted to avoid gender issues and refer me elsewhere I just needed to convince them the the gender issues weren't a problem - which the not setting ourselves up in opposition to it helped - and put them down to her ND instead, which they were used to dealing with. I wish I'd tackled the therapy very differently as it happens, but not because of the gender issues. And this was in the US, so may be less relevant.

Over time it got more intense until she hit about 14 and then it started to ease up. She's 17 now and much more comfortable in her self. She's stopped using they/them pronouns and refers to herself as female/a girl. But does still say she's gender fluid, if asked.

InfoSecInTheCity · Yesterday 18:11

Missed the bit about the beach but we actually found a great solution that she felt really comfortable in for our holiday a few weeks ago, she looked great too. Got her a tankini top, just a very plain vest style one, then some men’s swim shorts in a matching colour from primark which she loved because of the coverage and pockets. She then picked a couple of loose cottony mens short sleeve shirts in complementary colours that she wore over the tankini top. She looked cool, comfortable and not overly masculine or feminine just cool.

IwantToRetire · Yesterday 17:24

I know this isn't part of your opening post OP, but wonder if you have had contact with, or are aware of her new schools processes for someone like your DD.

Not suggesting anything alarming, but her starting there isn't far off and depending on what they say or dont say, might want to introduce it in talking to her.

In the meantime I hope all the great advice and shared experiences in reply to you are helping.

As others have said puberty can be so unsettling. It really upset me and in away I was angry I couldn't just go on being me without all these bodily things taking up my time and feeling out of sync with what my body was becoming.

A that was at a time the assumption from everyone was that I would automatically want to be more girly, feminine.

Hopefully there are now enough images, not just in sport of girls and young women who are at ease with not being that.

InfoSecInTheCity · Yesterday 16:00

Taytoface · Yesterday 15:39

Can I ask what bras she liked?

DD also thinks she is gay. No issue there. She has a proud dyke cousin, who has rejected all the gender crap. I might get her to pay a visit over the summer. She might talk more openly to her.

I have been very clear over the years on how oppressive gender roles are. We are a very gender non conforming house hold, I have amazing women in my life so she has some great role models.

This ideology is so fucking pervasive. Nothing else is fed to kids like this is. Not views and heath and fitness, reproductive rights, disability rights, women's rights. Nothing else is rammed down their throat in the same way. I have been snooping more on her Internet use, Spotify fed her video after video of propaganda until I shut it off.

They are medium control crop top style sports bras from Tesco, currently on sale for about £5 each and come in S,M,L style sizing. One has no padding, the other I removed the pads. They are quite snug, the solid feeling Lycra and have a bit of a flattening rather than boosting effect.

This is one but i can’t find the other online
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/323523924

backformoreofthesame · Yesterday 15:50

Just keep plugging away. Setting good examples. Support her choices as much as you can so that when you do have to say no, it’s against a backdrop of yes mostly

Taytoface · Yesterday 15:39

Can I ask what bras she liked?

DD also thinks she is gay. No issue there. She has a proud dyke cousin, who has rejected all the gender crap. I might get her to pay a visit over the summer. She might talk more openly to her.

I have been very clear over the years on how oppressive gender roles are. We are a very gender non conforming house hold, I have amazing women in my life so she has some great role models.

This ideology is so fucking pervasive. Nothing else is fed to kids like this is. Not views and heath and fitness, reproductive rights, disability rights, women's rights. Nothing else is rammed down their throat in the same way. I have been snooping more on her Internet use, Spotify fed her video after video of propaganda until I shut it off.

OP posts:
InfoSecInTheCity · Yesterday 15:28

DD is 12, also ND and has always preferred stereotypically boyish clothing, but mainly because she like soft, thick fabrics, elastic waistbands, non-restrictive and non-revealing clothing. It’s always been more sensory than gender related.

Shes let us know recently that she prefers girls too and thinks she’s gay, we said ‘cool, love whoever you love just make sure they’re good enough for you and we’ll be happy.’

She very recently started her period and in the last few days has expressed that she hates having breast and asked for a binder. I explained that binders are bad for her health, that they will be very tight, uncomfortable and most importantly can cause her damage and restrict her breathing so I had to say no but that I’d help her to find a sports bra that made her feel more comfortable. She was really nervous and reluctant to go shopping, kept shutting down the conversation or leaving the room, so I basically did a shopping haul, bought about 10 options that I thought would work, kept the receipts and put the bag in her room. The next day she gave me back the ones she didn’t like and said that the ones she had kept were good.

We've had conversations about how boys are boys and girls are girls and nothing can ever change that but that anyone can wear what they want and do their hair/makeup etc however they want as long as it’s appropriate for the situation.

noblegiraffe · Yesterday 15:13

Worth noting that a teen girl being uncomfortable about her developing body, particularly breasts is totally normal and the fact that she is uncomfortable with her breasts doesn't mean anything. It's mortifying needing a bra and having to be measured and so on, particularly if you develop before your peers.

Nowadays kids are told that if they are uncomfortable with their body, it's probably because they're trans, when they should be told it's because puberty is the worst.

SusanJJ · Yesterday 15:08

Could you step back and see how she gets on OP? 11 is very young and she may be trying out ideas rather than committing to anything she will regret later.

backformoreofthesame · Yesterday 15:05

this is based on my memories of me as a child and more recently . It was easier then as transgender wasn’t really a thing except things like Lou reeds walk on the wild side.

this is going to take you a decade

she may spend her whole life unhappy with her body - and the whole transgender thing makes you unhappier because you think seriously about the options - options for major surgery and the like. That was sowmthing I was too scared to attempt myself. But those options come with a cost - transmen in particular suffer a host of physical problems. Change your body and you don’t end up with what you want - you end up with a broken body. Unfortunately understanding of the need for physical health is something that grows with age. Maybes look up the works of some transmen - often they strongly advise against transistion.

can you find role models - female ones - for things she is interested in. My dad found loads of female scientists and astrophysicists. He talked about the injustice those women faced with men taking credit for their work. He talked about how people feared and distrusted and were jealous of women who were technically strong - and made it clear that was their weakness - nothing to do with me. These conversations as ad hoc - when I asked why has this teacher done that for example when I was sent to the remedial class ( once in the right school i always top academically)

show love, admire who she is , really work on that self confidence

molke bras feel more like vests and avoid all that lace and crap

sport like rock climbing are very good - the difference between male and female techniques is often praised. It’s caused by differences in the male and female body - lack of upper body strength leads to women developing great technical skills. But something where the boys want to learn form the girls does help rebalance the world a little.

dont just nod along - have some sympathy. Admit - this isn’t how you felt but you know it’s very common.

also if you could ask her to explain how much of this is body hatred and how much is more socially driven - from wanting to be treated like a boy , for being sexually uncomfortable - what are the differences she things she would experience as a boy and try to untangle that.

try to head of relatives who make comments about body’s and development and the like. Those that have strong male / female stereotypes in their actions - even simple things like when groups walk out , the men pair up and the women pair up - why is that ? Be super alert for all those sort of things

MrsOvertonsWindow · Yesterday 15:02

Sympathies @Taytoface . That children just starting puberty are having to navigate all this is shameful. Sorry for the length of my response but as some school have allowed activist teachers to indulge themselves running safeguarding breaching rainbow clubs and promoting trans issues via all sorts of unsuitable lobby groups, parents need to be certain that their child's school won't be dabbling in their chiild's confusion.

There is finally new DfE guidance for SRE & safeguarding that's in line with the Supreme Court judgment & places these vulnerable confused children within the safeguarding framework.

The new SRE Health guidance for Sept 2026 talks about working with parents, takes a clear safeguarding approach and has clear guidelines about the role of external speakers, the primacy of the teacher's role and the school's responsibility to share all resources with parents.

It states that when teaching about the pc of gender reasignment, schools should be mindful that beyond the facts and the law about biological sex and gender reassignment there is significant debate, and they should be careful not to endorse any particular view or teach it as fact. For example, they should not teach as fact that all people have a gender identity".

"Schools should avoid language and activities which repeat or enforce gender stereotypes. Schools should be mindful to avoid any suggestion that social transition is a simple solution to feelings of distress or discomfort"

The new KCSIE guidelines (when published) follow the SC judgment about no undressing in front of the opposite sex, single sex toilets etc and reinforce that there's no place for queer theory activism in schools.

Parents finally have back up to get political activists away from schools. We just need to be aware and use the guidance to insist schools comply, if any are foolish enough to outsource their SRE / Health Ed to activists.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6970e7e67e827090d02d42e0/Relationships_education_relationships_and_sex_education__RSE__and_health_education__for_intro_1_September_2026_.pdf
,

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6970e7e67e827090d02d42e0/Relationships_education_relationships_and_sex_education__RSE__and_health_education__for_intro_1_September_2026_.pdf

13RidgmontRoad · Yesterday 14:25

I wonder about gently directing her to sport in general, and if feasible sports that tend to have strong and possibly gender non-conforming women?

I'm a lesbian; I came out later in life. Getting into women-centred physical activity (weightlifting in my case) has been hugely helpful.

InnCognito · Yesterday 13:50

Taytoface · Yesterday 11:15

Thanks all. I have always been clear it is not possible to change sex, and I think she understands that. I have always been very clear that I don't care what she wears. She lives in shorts and t shirts, which I am fine with.

She has been into running, but has backed off from this recently, I think because of being self conscious about her boobs. Was also very self conscious when we went to the beach recently.

She won't talk to about it at all.

You may have tried this already, but if she absolutely won't talk will she communicate via messages? Whatever app you're happy for her to have or even SMS.

Icedvanillacoffee · Yesterday 13:33

Im a retired secondary school teacher and Sendco. Do keep a weather eye on what is going on at school. I had to insist repeatedly that staff stop referring to a student by they them prounouns. Adults who aren't very well educated in the problems of social transition have swallowed the be kind stuff whole.
I dont have kids but because of my work I started looking into how to help kids who are being confused by exposure to all sorts on the Internet.
Can I recommend a book called When Kids say they are Trans, by Ayad, Marchiano and Stella O'Malley. This seems full of reasonable advice and practical ideas. I havent finished it yet but I am finding it very interesting.
Because of the extremely polarised nature of this topic I do suggest you check out the view points of the authors. Not that they hide their views, the exact opposite in fact.
And good luck I was a very non gender conforming kid and Im a non gender conforming lesbian adult. I have many concerns for how hard girls have it now.

Taytoface · Yesterday 13:16

99bottlesofkombucha · Yesterday 13:01

Can i ask how Spotify is just as bad as YouTube?? 😳

It allows video content. Grown ups don't use it. But kids do. We have now moved to a family subscription and I have disabled video

OP posts:
user293948849167 · Yesterday 13:14

What about vest tops with hidden support to wear under a baggy t-shirt/hoodie ?

Aabbcc1235 · Yesterday 13:11

For the beach/pool have you tried some boys board shorts with a swim t-shirt over the top? And maybe try some sports bras?

I think that the most interesting thing about your post is how excited she got seeing other masc-presenting girls at the school visit.

Im wondering whether she has any masc lesbian role models in her life? If not I would deliberately search this out in real life, books, films, tv, comedy, sports etc. Might also help with the clothing issue is you can find any masc underwear models for sports bras?

Ideally, because she’s 11 and won’t talk to you, what you’re looking to do is watch a quiz show or some comedy or recommend a book or something and just enjoy the thing with absolutely no comment.

There are a lot of different ways of being a woman, not none of them should involve changing your body to fit the world.

99bottlesofkombucha · Yesterday 13:01

Can i ask how Spotify is just as bad as YouTube?? 😳

99bottlesofkombucha · Yesterday 13:01

I’d buy sports bras and sports tops with built in bras and push the strong and fit theme. Stereotypical boys have muscles- buy some hand weights, and encourage the running. School id discreetly raise my expectations but it might be tricky. Basically I’d support any individualism to help her really feel herself.

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · Yesterday 12:53

I bought my similar teen a sports bra and she has been happy with that. She wanted a binder, I refused and explained why. The sports bra is supportive and firm, which she actually really likes. It’s a tough time for girls who don’t see themselves as girly.