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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?

168 replies

RareGoalsVerge · 06/08/2026 13:39

I thought this was worth sharing as a potentially welcome, rational response to the EHRC guidelines. It's not perfectly in line with what we as feminists want, but it is way better than the toddler-tantrum responses I have seen elsewhere:
https://transfiguredmission.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/faqs-for-churches-following-ehrc.pdf

It is clearly written from the point of view of wanting to be as inclusive as possible, within the scope of the law as it stands.
You cannot expect or require trans people to use the ‘wrong’ toilet, therefore you will need sufficient mixed sex / all gender toilets. You must be careful not to simply repurpose the disabled toilet as this could amount to unlawful disability discrimination.

If you have single rooms / cubicles with a lockable floor-to-ceiling door the simplest way to cater fairly to everyone is to make them all unisex – or most of them if you have lots. If you currently only have two – one labelled M and one F - you must do this.

This seems rational to me. The document goes on to highlight that for the most part, everything that reasonably can be unisex/open to all should be - and describes that things which should be legitimately single sex might include

  • whether women are likely to be in a state of undress
  • whether there will be limited ability for women to leave or to choose an alternative service
  • whether the service is provided a result of, or connected with, male violence against women
  • whether the physical differences between men and women are relevant to the experience of the service and put women at a particular disadvantage
Most single-sex church groups would not be ‘necessary’ under this analysis. You cannot require trans people to attend the group that corresponds to their ‘birth sex’

There's plenty not to like - I wish they didn't refer to things that are legitimately single sex as being for cis women - obviously cis is inappropriate for large numbers of women who have just been getting on with their lives for a many decades just existing as best they can under a patriarchy without the luxury or priviledge of the leisure to work out if they have a gender identity, and also many things in the above bullet-pointed list would be very much appropriate for people who are female but identify with a masculine or non-binary identity, so a better document would highlight benefits to female people of all gender identities rather than using cis. In the toilets section the authors clearly know, by implication, that gender neutral toilets are only legitimate if they are fully enclosed with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, but fail to explicitly mention this or to draw attention to the well-known health and wellbeing detriments that arise when people are taken ill in such facilities. And the fact that they signpost to the Good Law Project at the end is disappointing.

But despite all this I thing its a welcome example of how reasonable organisations of good intention might do their best to find a reasonable way forward within the law, rather than just trying to ignore the law and carry on prioritising male people's wishes over female people's needs.

OP posts:
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FrippEnos · 07/08/2026 13:59

Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 13:54

Its odd that men with trans identities arent scared for themselves at the idea of everywhere becoming unisex, they are just threatening women with it.

Its because they get what they want, which is to take over women's spaces and piss with the women.

I will also point out that it proves that trans women are not scared of men.

Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 13:54

Its odd that men with trans identities arent scared for themselves at the idea of everywhere becoming unisex, they are just threatening women with it.

FrippEnos · 07/08/2026 13:53

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 13:45

Not my choice - it's the inevitable consequence of the new guidance. Even if you think trans women are men, there will be way more men in loos with you than ever before. I mean, the trans women will be in there too! Great work the EHRC.

it's the inevitable consequence of a group of men refusing single sex spaces.

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 13:51

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 13:45

Not my choice - it's the inevitable consequence of the new guidance. Even if you think trans women are men, there will be way more men in loos with you than ever before. I mean, the trans women will be in there too! Great work the EHRC.

You need to read further back up the thread. Buidling regs.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 13:51

@Plasticchesse
These maybe of use:

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2023/12/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-non-domestic/documents/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-domestic/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-domestic/govscot%3Adocument/2024%2B04%2BNon-domestic%2BTechnical%2BHandbook%2B-%2BComplete.pdf

The Scottish Government Building Standards Non-domestic Technical
Handbook April 2024 Page 282-283: Separate male and female sanitary is usually provided. This should be based upon the proportion of males and females that will use a building, where this is known, or provide accommodation for equal numbers of each sex otherwise. Unisex sanitary accommodation may be provided where each
sanitary facility, or a WC and wash hand basin, is located within a separate space, for use by only one person at a time, with a door that can be secured from within for privacy.

If the women’s provision is being used by men, it is unisex. Therefore the sink (sanitary facility) needs to be in a separate room.

Lady Poole judgement - useful as it discusses disadvantages to girls with handbasins being mixed in terms of the Equality Act.
https://judiciary.scot/home/sentences-judgments/judgments/2026/06/04/de-and-fg-against-west-lothian-council

https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2023/12/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-non-domestic/documents/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-domestic/building-standards-technical-handbook-april-2024-domestic/govscot%3Adocument/2024%2B04%2BNon-domestic%2BTechnical%2BHandbook%2B-%2BComplete.pdf

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 13:45

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 13:42

Exactly. @Mouldemort 's choice for us is 'piss' with men, or..... 'piss' with men.

Not my choice - it's the inevitable consequence of the new guidance. Even if you think trans women are men, there will be way more men in loos with you than ever before. I mean, the trans women will be in there too! Great work the EHRC.

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 13:44

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 13:39

"Trans women" are actual men.

Well, that's not true, but even if you believe it is, you are going to be spending a whole bunch more time with men in the loo.

Individual lockable loos with urinals are the way forward even if Sex Matters says they are "Not inclusive" whatever that means.

For theatres, I suspect things will continue as they always have, with women nipping into the men's without objection because of the relative size of the queues.

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 13:42

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 13:39

"Trans women" are actual men.

Exactly. @Mouldemort 's choice for us is 'piss' with men, or..... 'piss' with men.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 13:39

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 12:55

The inevitable consequence of this incoherent, car-crash guidance is that providers will, as much as possible, switch to mixed-sex provision. That's what you get when you wish on a monkey's paw. Gender critical people will be spending a lot more of their time pissing in rooms with actual men rather than one in a hundred times pissing in a room with a trans woman.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

The one which large companies go for is unisex lockable cubicles with a loo and a urinal.

"Trans women" are actual men.

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 13:36

FebruaryUsername · 07/08/2026 13:22

I am surprised how many people are against unisex toilets, my workplace and lots of the cafés/coffee shops/bars around us have moved to 100% unisex toilets and I've never once found wee on the seats or noticed them being unclean. It is the easiest way for small businesses to offer toilets for everyone.

Most cafes round by me only have one toilet, so it has to be unisex. They are usually tolerable, but not a wholly positive experience. I have repurposed my covid hand gels to use when I get back to the table, before I eat my food.

Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 13:33

I hate the unisex toilets in coffee chains and generally avoid.

They aren't that clean (the corners can be filthy) and have to be checked far more regularly than they obviously are.

The best used to be the toilets in department stores like Debenhams. Because of the size of the room, they felt and smelt more hygienic.

FebruaryUsername · 07/08/2026 13:22

I am surprised how many people are against unisex toilets, my workplace and lots of the cafés/coffee shops/bars around us have moved to 100% unisex toilets and I've never once found wee on the seats or noticed them being unclean. It is the easiest way for small businesses to offer toilets for everyone.

Pingponghavoc · 07/08/2026 13:20

Its been mentioned a lot, but unisex isnt just a sign. A provider cant just rename male and female provision both unisex.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

Thats what eddie izzard says because he can only think of himself. He wants to use women's spaces, but have the convenience of urinals when it suits. Male entitlement.

He also talks about liking 'chatting' to women while on the toilet and passing paper underneath if needed.

He's vocalising a fantasy, but also inadvertently highlighting why we cant have wall and door gaps in mixed space toilets.

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:14

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 13:11

Stalls is an American term. Sometimes people who read a lot of content from America use it.

I assume it's lifted wholesale from a badly photocopied version of the 'Big Bumper Book of TRA 'arguments', tbh.

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 13:11

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

I'm British. If your objection is the use of the word stalls, we are on the same page. It's not hard to change.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 13:11

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

Stalls is an American term. Sometimes people who read a lot of content from America use it.

Kingdomofsleep · 07/08/2026 13:10

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

Never. They are cheaper seats in the theatre

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 13:09

Plasticchesse · 07/08/2026 12:45

Is it? This is in Scotland. I’d be interested to know more about this as I might complain.

Ok - must admit I had my England ‘Document T’ head on for that bit.
It’s a bit different for Scotland because of devolution.

The problem is people planning building regs never would have thought we’d be having these conversations - it was assumed men and women would use the correct toilets or be told to get out.

I was presuming you are talking about the typical separate sex toilet washroom scenario: a door leading to sinks and hand drying, then a row of cubicles (with or without door gaps) made up of a partition system not solid walls?

Please can you describe the toilet room more?

spannasaurus · 07/08/2026 13:05

@Waitwhat23 Never

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 12:55

The inevitable consequence of this incoherent, car-crash guidance is that providers will, as much as possible, switch to mixed-sex provision. That's what you get when you wish on a monkey's paw. Gender critical people will be spending a lot more of their time pissing in rooms with actual men rather than one in a hundred times pissing in a room with a trans woman.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

The one which large companies go for is unisex lockable cubicles with a loo and a urinal.

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 12:55

The inevitable consequence of this incoherent, car-crash guidance is that providers will, as much as possible, switch to mixed-sex provision. That's what you get when you wish on a monkey's paw. Gender critical people will be spending a lot more of their time pissing in rooms with actual men rather than one in a hundred times pissing in a room with a trans woman.

The most efficient provision is STALLS and STALLS + URINALS.

The one which large companies go for is unisex lockable cubicles with a loo and a urinal.

tartyflette · 07/08/2026 12:50

Arran2024 · 06/08/2026 13:45

No, it's not good for women to make everything unisex. We will have men peeing all over the seats, using cubicles when they could use urinals so making us queue longer etc.

Not to mention using them for purposes other than peeing or pooing. Especially if there are women in adjacent cubicles.

Plasticchesse · 07/08/2026 12:47

There were sinks, floor to ceiling doors. But obviously if you leave the door wide open it’s neither here nor there.

Plasticchesse · 07/08/2026 12:45

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 12:25

That’s against building regulations.

Is it? This is in Scotland. I’d be interested to know more about this as I might complain.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 12:30

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 07/08/2026 11:37

Emergency cords and buttons are far, far safer than just expecting someone to come by and see you in a gap under the door.

In a high-traffic environment, door gaps are just as good as a cord for prompt detection of an ill person. Door gaps don't have the problem of prankers or small children activating them. Door gaps can't be left tied up just below the ceiling by the installer and never unknotted, making them useless, whereas I've lost count of the number of pullcords I've seen like that (and personally climbed up and unknotted or else complained to the staff about). Door gaps can't snap off, be cut off by building occupants sick of false alarms, or be looped up out of the way of the floor mop by cleaners§. Door gaps work during power cuts. And lastly but most importantly, door gaps work when the toilet user is unconscious.

§ IME, cleaners are the biggest risk to an organisation's buildings safety. If you find a fire door with "fire door keep shut" literally written on it chocked open anywhere, a cleaner will have done it.

Cleaners are at risk themselves in toilets. I can understand why some women don’t want to clean them out of hours.