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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?

165 replies

RareGoalsVerge · 06/08/2026 13:39

I thought this was worth sharing as a potentially welcome, rational response to the EHRC guidelines. It's not perfectly in line with what we as feminists want, but it is way better than the toddler-tantrum responses I have seen elsewhere:
https://transfiguredmission.uk/wp-content/uploads/2026/06/faqs-for-churches-following-ehrc.pdf

It is clearly written from the point of view of wanting to be as inclusive as possible, within the scope of the law as it stands.
You cannot expect or require trans people to use the ‘wrong’ toilet, therefore you will need sufficient mixed sex / all gender toilets. You must be careful not to simply repurpose the disabled toilet as this could amount to unlawful disability discrimination.

If you have single rooms / cubicles with a lockable floor-to-ceiling door the simplest way to cater fairly to everyone is to make them all unisex – or most of them if you have lots. If you currently only have two – one labelled M and one F - you must do this.

This seems rational to me. The document goes on to highlight that for the most part, everything that reasonably can be unisex/open to all should be - and describes that things which should be legitimately single sex might include

  • whether women are likely to be in a state of undress
  • whether there will be limited ability for women to leave or to choose an alternative service
  • whether the service is provided a result of, or connected with, male violence against women
  • whether the physical differences between men and women are relevant to the experience of the service and put women at a particular disadvantage
Most single-sex church groups would not be ‘necessary’ under this analysis. You cannot require trans people to attend the group that corresponds to their ‘birth sex’

There's plenty not to like - I wish they didn't refer to things that are legitimately single sex as being for cis women - obviously cis is inappropriate for large numbers of women who have just been getting on with their lives for a many decades just existing as best they can under a patriarchy without the luxury or priviledge of the leisure to work out if they have a gender identity, and also many things in the above bullet-pointed list would be very much appropriate for people who are female but identify with a masculine or non-binary identity, so a better document would highlight benefits to female people of all gender identities rather than using cis. In the toilets section the authors clearly know, by implication, that gender neutral toilets are only legitimate if they are fully enclosed with floor-to-ceiling walls and doors, but fail to explicitly mention this or to draw attention to the well-known health and wellbeing detriments that arise when people are taken ill in such facilities. And the fact that they signpost to the Good Law Project at the end is disappointing.

But despite all this I thing its a welcome example of how reasonable organisations of good intention might do their best to find a reasonable way forward within the law, rather than just trying to ignore the law and carry on prioritising male people's wishes over female people's needs.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 18:20

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:16

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

Kudos for getting so many of the current TRA buzz words in just one post!

Segregation - tick!
Service providers can't do anything about it - tick!
'Code' - tick!
Genital police - tick!

Had you thrown 'genocide' and 'panties' in too, I'm guessing you would have gotten a standing ovation over at Reddit!

But I suppose they're all too busy with their 5th Aug Trophy Hunter photos in the Ladies toilets at the moment.

SqueakyDinosaur · 07/08/2026 17:20

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 15:44

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

Where "sophisticated" = unlawful?

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:16

SwirlyGates · 07/08/2026 16:18

The guidance is simple and straightforward. The only people who might be confused are transpeople who have amnesia and can't remember what sex they are. Other transpeople will just follow the law of course, won't they, and then there is no issue for service providers to deal with. Or are you saying transpeople make a habit of breaking the law?

I am saying that gender critical people have a habit of harassing gender non-conforming people (a criminal offence) for using a loo (not a criminal offence.)

A trans man who is not allowed to use either loo is absolutely within their rights to use the loo of their choice, and there is every chance they will be harassed if they use the women's. These are not criminal acts, I don't blame them at all for opposing segregation, and it's impossible for service providers under the code to do anything about it.

Service providers don't want this headache. They don't want to force transgender people to out themselves, and they don't want self-appointed genital police harassing their customers. So, mixed sex and lockable cubicles make this straightforward under the code.

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 17:16

I'll let everyone read the Sex Matters guidance and compare it to the 'mixed sex', 'unisex', 'sinks & urinals', 'cubicles' and 'stalls' word salads being provided in this thread.

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/#unisex

The truth about toilets 

Following the Supreme Court ruling on the meaning of the protected characteristic of sex, everyone wants to talk about toilets. The Equality Act, and this

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 17:08

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:50

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

No, I've not read what GLP said about it.

I was basing it on what the EHRC head said in her interview - the obvious solution for small providers is to go unisex. Sex Matters acknowledges that lockable cubicles with sinks and urinals are legal, and their only objection is they are "not inclusive," whatever that means.A large mixed sex loo with a couple of single sex ones is also fine according to this code. Clearly, mixed sex provision will increase. Many fitting rooms have been unisex for years, and that will only increase.

Providers want to avoid the impossibility of policing single sex spaces, the inevitable harassment of transgender people and (much more probably) gender non-conforming people, and many providers are actually supportive of trans rights.

Imdunfer · 07/08/2026 16:57

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

No. Cubicles have 4 walls, stalls have no 4th wall.

Some people refer to urinals with side boards as stalls.

In the equine world again stalls have no 4th wall and places where horses live with 4 walls are referred to as stables or loose boxes.

KrazyKatty · 07/08/2026 16:48

Why should women give way to the crazy entitled misogynistic 1% of the population?

Answer: We don’t have to!

Keep reminding them of the law and let’s increase the number of legal cases against illogical councils and inept employers.

Clusterfuckular · 07/08/2026 16:24

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 06/08/2026 13:46

Yes - this was what jumped out at me too. “You cannot expect or require…” Why not?

It's the law.

It's what the vast majority of people support.

If people want to change this, they will need to change the law.

SwirlyGates · 07/08/2026 16:18

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

The one thing I hope we can agree on is that the guidance is vague and unhelpful and leaves service providers with no clear guidance.

The guidance is simple and straightforward. The only people who might be confused are transpeople who have amnesia and can't remember what sex they are. Other transpeople will just follow the law of course, won't they, and then there is no issue for service providers to deal with. Or are you saying transpeople make a habit of breaking the law?

Shortshriftandlethal · 07/08/2026 16:00

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

Most of those sort of single ocupancy toilets are already just labelled 'toilet', and as such are already unisex.

Nobody is going to put a urinal in a unisex single occupancy facility - though they will need to provide a sanitary bin and an integral wash basin.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 15:57

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:50

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

Well I found out how much of an expert JM was about toilets when he was sneery about accessible toilets - calling them disabled toilets and thinking they would be out the way in a basement.

Shortshriftandlethal · 07/08/2026 15:56

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:23

I meant the EHRC guidance as a whole is terrible for transgender people, not specifically the mixed sex provision. The code even suggests that trans men might have nowhere to pee at all.

I don't think it is terrible for people with trans identities in any other way than their gender identity is not being directly affirmed. On a practical level people will have to negotiate public facilities in the same way that other groups have had to for a long time. In some circumstances, for example, trying to find out beforehand what facilities are available for their use and where alternative facilities may be located.

One new build university auditorium/theatre where I live has the usual single sex blocks, plus an additional single occupancy 'gender neutral' facility alongside the 'accessible' facility. No fuss, no bother......just meeting anticipated needs in a proportionate manner. it is not difficult to achieve.

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:50

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 15:44

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

I suspect PP is relying a little too much on GLP's 'interpretation' of the law and the guidance. I thought most transactivists had begun to realise that GLP usually ends up doing more harm than good for their cause.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 15:44

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:37

@Mouldemort Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

If you are going to keep stating this without addressing the points that other posters have made then you are not really moving the conversation along, are you?

Indeed The Good Law Project say having unisex toilets is the ‘sophisticated’ solution for school toilets.

Keeptoiletssafe · 07/08/2026 15:37

Plasticchesse · 07/08/2026 14:55

Thank you. The sinks were in the cubicles so within the rules. The point I was thinking about making was that there needs to be a sign to alert people that these are unisex provision. My most generous interpretation of my man pissing with the door open was that this what he would do in the men’s and some signage may have made him stop and think before 2 female teens came upon him.

there is also a fancy bar near me with cubicles (floor to ceiling) and shared sinks. So that must be against the rules. Whenever I go there there are started and confused people of both sexes assuming they have made a mistake and often men standing outside and debating if they want to go in, looking akward. This really works for no one.

The design still doesn’t sound great - it sounds like there’s an outer door leading to a blind corridor mixed sex room with rooms off? The Home Office had a similar problem when they converted a traditional washroom with cubicles into ‘gender neutral’ toilets behind a door. Unisex or universal toilets should directly lead off onto a thoroughfare. It seems men remember to close the door then.

Is this what a sane but pro-Trans response to the EHRC Guidance looks like?
AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:37

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

@Mouldemort Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

If you are going to keep stating this without addressing the points that other posters have made then you are not really moving the conversation along, are you?

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:30

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

The one thing I hope we can agree on is that the guidance is vague and unhelpful and leaves service providers with no clear guidance.

No. The guidance is clear. It is the spin being put on it by transactivists that is trying to muddy the waters.

Arran2024 · 07/08/2026 15:30

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:06

And yet the new guidance will mean an increase in mixed-sex provision. It's terrible for transgender people and bad for gender critical people.

The previous situation where places like museums and universities could (and did) put signs up telling women to welcome anyone who identified as female into the ladies wasn't great either. It is entirely due to that sort of overreach that the law was clarified. Especially as so many trans women have no intention of blending in. I see plenty of men with eg boobs and long hair and a pornstar dress plus doc martens and a beard saying they are women and getting in.

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

The one thing I hope we can agree on is that the guidance is vague and unhelpful and leaves service providers with no clear guidance.

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:28

AimsAndObjectives · 07/08/2026 15:18

You keep saying that, but I am not convinced. There may be an increase in certain areas, I have noticed it in a couple of bus and train stations for example, but I don't think that it will be the wholescale remodelling of the landscape that you imagine. It is a matter of money and space and throughput and document T, in England anyway. Separate-sex areas enable faster throughput because the sinks are separate to the toilets, for example.

Any small provider with and handful of separate individual loos will switch to unisex, per the EHRC head's guidance in her Channel 4 interview.

The only thing the EHRC says about not providing single sex loos is it "could be direct or indirect sex discrimination against women who use the service " without specifying any examples or circumstances under which would be the case. It's an absolute car crash. A recent high court decision suggests that as long as there is some single-sex provision, it's find to provide other "mixed-sexed" loos based on gender rather than "biological sex."

Lockable, individual unisex cubicles with urinals are the gold standard.

spannasaurus · 07/08/2026 15:25

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:23

I meant the EHRC guidance as a whole is terrible for transgender people, not specifically the mixed sex provision. The code even suggests that trans men might have nowhere to pee at all.

No it doesn't. Transmen can only be excluded from female services if an alternative is provided. See FWS judgment for further details

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 15:25

Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:01

It's legal to have groups which are trans inclusive by specifying more than one protected class. So, the Girl Guides or Women's Institute could be for women and transgender people.

Likewise, under the new guidance you can exclude trans men from women-only spaces, but you can also include them.

Girl Guiding could become a mixed sex organisation...

-If they dropped their use of the single sex exemption for Associations with more than 25 members

  • if they changed their charitable aims and objectives
  • if they dropped the 'for girls' deal
  • and crucially, if the members themselves wanted to. There's been polling over the years which consistently shows that girls and parents want it to continue as a single sex organisation. The foot stamping of a few activists wearing their promise badges upside down in protest 🙄 doesn't change that.
Mouldemort · 07/08/2026 15:23

StandingDeskDisco · 07/08/2026 15:14

I agree that mixed-sex provision is worse for everyone. But why do you say it will be 'terrible' for transgender people? Surely a transwoman would rather use a mixed-sex toilet than a men's toilet?
Genuine question.

I meant the EHRC guidance as a whole is terrible for transgender people, not specifically the mixed sex provision. The code even suggests that trans men might have nowhere to pee at all.

tartyflette · 07/08/2026 15:21

Waitwhat23 · 07/08/2026 13:02

Quick poll fellow UK posters! (as this is UK legislation)

Do you ever use the word 'stalls' to refer to toilet cubicles?

No. It’s a cubicle. Stalls are for animals like horses.