Triggernometry KJK vs Helen Webbererly

No problem – interesting that you had a different response to her from mine.

Thanks for engaging with what I said in a friendly, civilised way!

I do know what people are saying about KJK being rude etc. But I love it about her so much - I only wish I could be that way. She takes no shit, gives zero fucks, and I admire her greatly. She has no interest in being seen as nice. Its a breath of fresh air tbh. I think thats why the 'be kind' thing has happened - we are all so worried being told we are selfish and mean - when HW said that to her she just laughed and said 'i dont care'. Shes adamant its not our job to help trans idenitifed men find a safe space to pee. I see her as a shining example here. Why is it even our problem?

Whereas HW comes across as deeply unpleasant, as she always does- especially to women (not so much to men) with her sarcasm and patronising them for not being Drs, and calling them ‘darling’ etc. She obviously feels inferior to women like Keen, Joyce and Halligan and it really shows in her tone towards them.

I didn’t find KJK to be ‘ranting and aggressive’ though @PotteringPondering. I wonder how many viewers did? To me she just came across as well-prepared, forthright, blunt, and unwilling to let any bullshit fly.

I do criticise Konstantin in exactly the same way. My original post on this thread (p4) criticises him twice:

'Kellie and Konstantin both came across as rude and aggressive... I do think the rudeness and aggression Kellie and Konstantin showed is counter-productive, and will put lots of undecideds off a gender critical position.'

I only zoomed in on Kellie here because somebody asked me specifically about her.

For the record, I also agree with what Glinner says on sex and gender. But I often find him rude and aggressive too, and I think that damages his case.

I'd say the same about (say) Pentecostal preachers. I'm sympathetic to historic Christian beliefs, but a ranting style is offputting to me and most people I know.

The point I'm making is not about GC ideas. It's about what makes for engaging communication. If somebody's public persona is ranting and aggressive, their devoted fanbase thinks it sounds strong – but most people think it sounds unhinged.

Spot on!

KJK! So unladylike

Was she not passive and simpering enough when faced with the dangerous lies HW was spouting? KK also challenged HW many times throughout much in the same vein as KJK. Why are you not calling him rude and aggressive? Is it because he’s a bloke?

Just listened to Piers Morgan. HW "Bah bah bah I don't understand the question". Absolute loon.

This was on TRIGGERNOMETRY. The audience are used to KK and FF and many of them would have watched their RAW weekly sessions where they were so rude and offensive they had to stop doing it outside of subscribers. I don't even know if they do it for subscribers any more.

Delicate little flowers do not watch Trig.

Women have been making these arguments for years. The same arguments over and over and are still asked but what about the poor TW who just want to pee. Women like KJK, SD, HJ, MF, EH,JB,KS are very educated on these matters and the time for being kind is long gone. HW is a nutter and can't be allowed to get away with this dangerous nonsense.

She reminds me a lot of a conman I worked with briefly back in the 90s (before he was rumbled), just so slippery no question is answered clearly.

Then my favourite part of the debate - when Helen Webberly went on to smugly list the problems of a lack of estrogen. Many of these problems are curiously problems that girls who have been on puberty blockers or testosterone seem to suffer.

She was so intent on getting personal with kjk that she ended up making her point for her, having totally dismissed it just minutes earlier.

Absolutely @Lottapianos. HW is just nasty.

'When KJK said she isn’t on HRT, HW said ‘Oh, see you in ten years!’ It sounded like she was saying that she thought not being on HRT was a mistake. In a sort of ‘good luck with that!’ kind of a way.'

It was absolutely appalling for her to bring up KJK's age, menopausal status or medical situation in any way at all, let alone sneering at KJK's informed decision about her healthcare. That's just not something any ethical, serious, legitimate healthcare professional would do, ever. She's a total disgrace

According to Google, KJK is 52 and HW is 57.

When KJK said she isn’t on HRT, HW said ‘Oh, see you in ten years!’ It sounded like she was saying that she thought not being on HRT was a mistake. In a sort of ‘good luck with that!’ kind of a way.

Well spotted!

As KJK said, she constantly changes the goalposts. See also HW's fondness for telling both Konstantin and KJK that they're 'confused'. It's a tactic.

And, moreover, one which can now be instantly shut down with that insightful observation.

Ha!
Makes perfect sense in upside-down bizarro world I suppose

She's TEN YEARS YOUNGER THAN KJK? fuck me! The grift really ages you I guess.

I am very wary of people who use ‘young person’ instead of ‘children’ when they are also discussing the agency of those children to make decisions that will have serious negative impact on their body’s health for their life when they currently have a healthy body.

Or who discusses ‘young people’s consent’.

Brilliant!
The contradiction in her approach between arguing with adults and the way she presents herself as having serious and effective conversations with eight-year-olds pretty much sums up her style. Charlatan to the core.
Not to mention the fact that she would contradict herself in the twinkling of an eye, almost immediately.

it's so strange that she thinks people who are 'non-medics' can't have an opinion on this but 8 year olds can.

HW really irritated me with that nasty little swipe about being 10 years younger than KJK, as in being 10 years behind her in terms of menopause. All the while KJK sat there looking fabulous, while HW looked like she spent the morning scrubbing pub toilets. If she thinks she's got youth on her side she's even more deluded than I thought.

Oh golly she is arguing that in the future as long as we stop puberty this will cease to be a problem.

HW is on Piers Morgan, uncensored right now on trans in sport.

She has not spoken yet.

Not a fan of Piers but on this subject is great.

strange bedfellows, hey ho