Pissed you can't piss in peace

If toilets etc are actually mixed sex thenthats fine but they need to be clearly marked as such so I know before using them (or not)
If they are women only then NO MEN should be in there, no matter what theya re wearing, have had removed or call themselves

It is clearer if you use the word sex instead of gender.

TRA want every situation to be a validation exercise.

So toilets and changing rooms go from offering essential services as safely as possible to be about their identity.

The only reason Eddie Izzard needs to in the women's toilet is because if he goes into the men, his identity hits reality. He knows the only 'harm' he will face in the men is acceptance - he'll be seen as a man using male facilities.

We can't design facilities based on someone's inner identity while ignoring real needs based on sex and safety.

If men can use women's spaces, the spaces need to be redesigned to accommodate both sexes. Making it unisex.

Maybe thats these men's second choice - if they cannot use women's spaces, they want the spaces removed.

But without the whinging and moaning, what would activists be left with?

(additional mixed-sex spaces, apparently. So not out in the cold with nowhere to go. How devastating.)

Oh for goodness sake.

I know the narrative is all about 'I want you to accept me as I choose to be, and accept my wonderful variety and diversity, and my special needs and differences' which is great.

The thing is that you also have to in return extend that same to everyone else. In particular women who also want you to accept their wonderful variety and diversity and special needs and differences, which include needing single sex spaces.

Trans people are very very special, everybody gets it. They just cannot trump everything and everyone else all the time, and always come first. Other people matter too.

So the guidance has fixed this, adding more for trans people in fact than required by law, by making clear that while the massive majority of unambiguously male/female people want and need spaces on the basis of their sex for privacy, dignity, etc, and rely on this for their inclusion, those who do not want to do this because of the impact on their sense of identity, privacy and dignity, or for whom it is not a clear cut matter, or those who have radically changed their appearance and created a lot of ambiguity, must have access to additional mixed sex spaces in which none of this matters, will not arise, and will not be an issue or barrier for them.

Why we're still dealing with whinging and moaning from activists (and as demonstrated on this thread, it's activists and not trans people as a whole) I don't know. 'I don't want anyone else to have anything' is not a reasonable or rational argument.

Nobody is policing your appearance.
Where what you like.
Just use the correct toilet for your sex.

Hmm... You know, I'm wondering if using those arguments would get people further in defending the GC position. I mean, considering how many people out there seem to be far more sensitive to the "Think of the poor men!" arguments than to, "Let's protect women," maybe explaining why this is bad for the men as well would work better? After all, everyone knows that there's nothing worse in the world than for a man to be wrongfully accused of rape (/s) , so deliberately putting men into that exact potential situation might be enough to finally make people see sense?

That's shocking

The transman i know is so very outspoken as being accepted as male in every way shape or form.

But this person it as risk of rape no matter how they identify.

I really do worry. Women are always at risk of rape no matter how they identify.

yes…
and more than that:

• it puts honest men in a difficult position. We would never choose to be alone with a woman in somewhere like a loo - it leaves men open to allegations… safeguarding is about protecting women in vulnerable situations, but also men from accusations against them.
• it is unfair on boys some of whom will be going through hormonal changes themselves… they don’t need the complication of not knowing whether the blokes’ loo might have girls in it…

They do. I've asked men and they were mortified at the thought of women using men's facilities. Men are also entitled to privacy and dignity.

Those who want to promote mixed sex facilities should do so openly. Most people don't want this.

Because men matter more. That's the be all and end all of it.

Occasional transwomen masturbating in the loos definitely is a problem.

Well, yes, building regs and Workplace regs have required ratios, by sex.

This enrages me too. Someone, somewhere, must have the numbers for how many more female than male toilets are needed in various places at various times. Shopping centres and museums in the school holidays will have a different balance compared to a sports bar.

But no one, or almost no one, involved in building design or event planning seems to care, as we stand there with menopausal flooding or barely potty-trained toddlers howling that they need to go nooooOOOW!

Very well put. Totally correct and succinct. We do not want any sort of male in female only spaces.

This!
(love the username)

Oh no, that pisses me off too.

And the fact that TRA demands have made places have unisex toilets which now even men have to queue for alongside women. That pisses me off.I imagine it pisses men off too.

Please don't think I agree with you about what the real issue is. There are many real issues. The biggest is misogyny and male entitlement.

If providing women's toilets doesn't keep anyone safe, as you say, then transwomen may as well use the gents and have done with it.

This!!!

The best way for men to piss in peace is calmly walk into the men's toilets, and piss without making a scene and then zip up, ideally wash their hands and then leave.

Hope that helps.

A trans men was sectioned and put on a women’s ward. despite being ill enough to be sectioned she insisted on being moved to a men’s ward and they agreed.

she was raped within a hour.

'I always think that men might be uncomfortable with a biological female was in their toilet and changing rooms.'

I agree. I think a lot of men would find it very uncomfortable and embarrassing. It's a shame they're not more vocal about it. This is largely a problem for men to fix, but women are made out to be the villains, as usual

Nobody passes, not if they are Caucasian. Maybe some of the south or East Asian men do at a first glance, but, even then, there is something that gives it away. The male entitlement, usually.

we can tell you’re male just from the way you post on here, mate. We don’t need to conisder how you walk, fiddle with your hair, do that wee eyeliner flicky thing, to tell. Nobody passes.

So disabled people, who have no choice, would just have to wait while self-entitled men flounce through their facilities. Yup, everyone has to defer to the narcissists.

I know a transman at my gym. This person is obsessed with toilets and because no bottom surgery has taken place, they remain an intact female on the lower half despite having had the rest of the surgery, this person is unable to use a urinal and must go into the cubicles.In a man's toilet.

I find it quite galling that they refer to nontrans individuals as privileged. We don't know how privileged we are being able to use a toilet without thinking about it. I mean pick a struggle.

I always think that men might be uncomfortable with a biological female was in their toilet and changing rooms.

I don't understand the obsession with toilets and I don't understand that.Having made a conscious choice to alter your body there is an issue going into opposite sex toilets.Because you're not a member of that sex.

Calling it Privilege, for being able to use a woman's toilet as a woman or a man's toilet as a man is beyond belief.It's absolutely absurd.

I am also worried about this transman.Entering a man's toilet as an intact female on the bottom. There's still a risk of rape there because they biologically female.