Different instinctive reactions to men and trans women in public

Because we have a lot more white women around kids in the general population than we have trans women around anyone.

I see the things GC women say here about trans women and how you treat them, or say youd treat them, if you ever actually interacted with one. Which most of you will not due to the low numbers.

And let's face it, most GC meets get very little attendance. I saw one on ny Facebook the other day for GC lesbians. There was about 4 of them sat together with signs (didn't read them). The comments were mostly lesbians saying they dont exclude trans women, even if they'd never date a trans woman and so they'd never attend such a group.

I'll find the post when I get back from.Sainsburys

They’re the best stats we have. If white women are more likely to kill their kids than other women then I don’t have a problem with people discussing that either as a white woman myself, and anyway, what does that have to do with the fact that transwomen threaten rape and violence on a regular basis and gender critical women don’t?

No the stats show that for the prison population..not the general population..Just like the stats likely show white women are much more likely to murder their children than any other women. That's because the number of white women who are in jail for killing their kids is disproportionate. If you looked at women who were mentally ill and are now in hospital after killing their kids, you might find it more mixed. But the women who are deepened to have capacity and killed their kids anyway are overwhelmingly white.

How many anti trans signs have you seen at LWS or any pro women's rights march/talk?
How many trans meetings have been disrupted by women's rights "fundies"?
How many trans rights meetings have been stopped by the releasing of insects?
How many Women have covered themselves in piss at demonstrations?
How many Women's rights marches have been led by convicted violent criminals?

You can use whataboutery etc. as much as you like but its the trans lobby that are shouting at babies, punching OAPs and threatening to rape women.

I was at an event at a hotel at the same time as a trans weekend.
I have never felt so uncomfortable in my life. 50 obvious men trying to “out woman” each other, treating their wives (those who had them with them) like shit, and very much giving off male vibes in a high needs and needing constant validation way.
Others at the same event I was at commented that before that weekend they were very much TWAW, but the atmosphere of the place also made them feel unsafe in a way that they wouldn’t if it was another hobby group full of men.
I’ve also seen a friend lose her business because TW took offence at her offering women only workshops (because too many have had bad experiences with men). Her business thrived for years, but collapsed because of a determined group of TW who wanted in on the action, even though mixed sex groups were available via my friend as well.

Non trans men have never been a threat to her business, although indirectly boosted it by giving so many women a reason to be drawn to female only events.

So to answer the op, I feel every bit as wary of TW as I do men in general, if not more, because at least when men try to encroach on women’s spaces we see them exactly for who they are, and we don’t have a bunch of man hating handmaidens screeching at us that these men are literally women 🙄

They dont record ethnicity (wonder why!) but when a child under 5 is murdered, it is most likely to be a woman who did it and that woman is likely to be their mother.

In my time in Bronzefield, all the women who had killed their kids or any kids were white. White middle classed women who came in the jail were automatically assumed to be "bunny boilers" or child killers, and we were rarely wrong.

I never saw a trans woman when I was in jail. I did see white women who had murdered their children.

"Would I cross the road in the street" is quite specific.

My personal threat model for trans-identifying men isn't really that they are likely to randomly attack me on the street, steal my phone, or any similar risks.

But if for example one of them started working at my workplace, I would be constantly on edge as I would feel that he would be a threat to the dynamics of my well-functioning social group at work, or that my employment might be at risk as I would really, really struggle to use non-sex-based pronouns or to engage affirmatively in conversations.

Or I've attended feminist meetings in the past when there were specifically groups of TRA protestors, where I've felt more of a specific physical danger, but that's not any random person on the street.

Yes.

And remembering that female people did not have the option to report hate crimes against women and girls.

It was never a valid comparison, yet the media and activists ran with it.

No we don’t think all transwomen are sex offenders but the stats do show they are more likely to be and it should be fine to state facts like that, it’s not violent to do so.

It’s not really on the same level of threatening to rape women with barbed wire baseball bats in any case, is it?

I can't think of a situation when I've ever crossed the road to avoid anyone. Maybe once, with a group of rowdy men outside a pub. But I do tend to walk around in my own little world most of the time and don't take much notice of fellow pedestrians, unless their appearance or behaviour is particularly unusual!

However, late at night in a quiet place is a very different scenario to daytime, and we as women are more likely to be alert to potential
threats. I probably wouldn't cross the road, but I would be more wary of an obviously male person, though wouldn't automatically assume they wished me harm.

I think some of you are mistaken in how violent your language is in here. Remember you guys regularly say that all trans women are sex fetishes and where you can get away with it, you'll hint that they are sex offenders and paedophiles too. Mumsnet sometimes deletes these comments.

Ive seen posts where you say they shouldn't have professional roles, you wouldn't give them a job and they should be away from all children.

You use statistics from prison to support these views.

I think you need to be honest about the thoughts shared in here.

You hate them as much as they hate you.

Err ... would you like to actually argue your point, along with including the principles of legitimate discrimination and safeguarding assessments?

Or are you just doubling down to make an irrelevant whataboutery point?

Just a note:

It is not 'fundamental' to support female single sex provisions excluding all male people above the age of about 8 years old. Unless, of course, someone is attempting to use a false 'both sides' opinion based on assymetrical measurement of 'fundamental' and 'extreme'.

Err no, I'm actually pretty sure that white women are disproportionately represented when it comes to killing their children. I wouldnt use that to routinely safeguard children on the outside against white women.

OP, all you are saying is that you find some men less threatening than others. This is unremarkable.

You judge that men who present as women are less threatening. Others might make judgements based on age or class. Some women will find all men threatening. Others will find very few men threatening.

They are all still men.

The prison statistics cannot be denied for use for safeguarding risk analysis of the principle of whether or not transition in any way lowers the general risk of a specific group out of the general male population group.

"I'm pretty sure that prison stats will show that the mothers who kill children are overwhelmingly white. I'm not sure wee should use that statistic to judge white women outside of jail."

Unless you can make a very clear case for what you are trying to highlight here, this just seems to be a very weak 'whataboutery' distraction and one based on your own lack of confidence about what the prisoner statistics show and don't show.

By the way, did you find those papers that supported your claim about most female people believing that TWAW?

In London no one crosses the road to avoid anyone who looks as if they might be trans.

Very odd question - hope answering it isn’t endorsing its implications. Whatever they’re trying to be.

Nah, you don’t see the average gender critical woman threaten actual harm to transpeople. Just doesn’t happen to any great extent, whereas you bc t have to look hard to find transwomen (and it is usually transwomen, not transmen) threatening violent acts against gender critical women.

I'd be much more wary of an unknown man who appeared to be trying to disguise himself as a woman than of a random bloke.

Actually I have seen people of both sexes who are against trans people say awful things about them. I see trans people see awful things about people who don't think they are the gender they say they are.

Seems pretty much like people from the same sewer, to me, just using different words.

You don’t see many women threatening to rape and murder TRAs do you?

I live in a city. I work across from the main station. I see transwomen on a regular basis. Daily if you count the two that work in my building but I see others around the station on at least a weekly basis.

If anything, I'd be more likely to keep my distance from males who identify as women, as I know they're not mentally well, and mentally unwell men are usually more likely to behave erratically or aggressively, especially towards women.

I dont think trans people are less unfriendly than those who are against trans people. Most of us fit somewhere in the middle.

Fundamentalists of all kind take their views to extreme. Of course there are fundies on both sides of this.