Different instinctive reactions to men and trans women in public

Not sure why you quoted me.

I don't think my post is saying Transwomen can not be threatening towards Women and girls.

I can absolutely appreciate that transwomen may have anxieties about being attacked in public, and certainly can't say this never happens. At best they will get sideways glances, at worst they may be verbally or physically attacked, though this is hopefully rare.

But it's also true that a proportion, I don't know what the proportion is, can also be threatening towards women and girls. I wouldn't feel threatened on a street, but I might in a changing room or toilet, where I don't expect men to be. Same as I would with any man in a space where I don't expect him to be and where society would generally expect him to be excluded and self-exclude from.

Jolyon Maugham promoted ‘Bash Back’ claim that they have forced the EHRC into hiding.

I don’t think Bash Back are necessarily reresentative, but I also haven’t noticed any trans advocacy organisations saying ‘not in our name’.

Objections to this discussion - it’s on the FEMINISM AND GENDER board.
Go away boys.

Interesting observation, @Waheymum .

The transwomen i have met would themselves cross the road to avoid a men they perceived as dodgy/dodgy-looking. So i guess I may not cross the road to avoid a transwoman if I saw one out & about, because I would reckon they have the same fears as I.

And where did you 'learn' this? Clown fish school?

But if they are saying they would never date one, surely they are excluding them (from
their potential dating pool) and therefore not treating them as actual women.

So… women face constant male intimidation by protesters every time they meet and yet women are then dismissed as having poor turn outs for their events….

Yeah.. ‘both sides’

https://x.com/mrmennotweets/status/2081048279240847863?s=46
Another sign for those who wish to believe that both sides are as bad as each other and that feminists are just as bad as the male people who demand that their subjective reality that is not reflective of material reality is treated as being materially real.
For those without twitter, Menno videoed this sign at Pride ‘90% of pigs in the UK are gassed to death, but terfs still exist’.
All because some feminists took organisations to court and got the laws around legitimate discrimination that the laws of the UK allowed clarified. And women had to do this because organisations such as stonewall had been telling the UK organisations who paid for advice, the interpretation of the law as they wanted it to be not as it was. Because also an extreme transgender rights activist was involved in writing the EHRC’s guidance for the EA 2010 the first time around.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheFarSide/comments/1bihzfj/how_nature_says_do_not_touch/

There's anecdotal evidence that it does however as far as im aware nobody has ever studied it so nobody can accurately say if any apparant increase in violence is due to testosterone use or other potential factors hence its the old guessing game of causation vs correlation.

I did in my last post. You can look at the latest stats and numbers on the moj website.
As for more likely to be victims of violence thats a lie told by TRAs. No trans identifying persons has ever been murdered yet I can name 4 trans identifying murderers just in Scotland off the top of my head. When you look at all violent crimes stats per capita trans identifying males are the safest group of all.
The only stats that show trans identifying people as the most victimised are non crime hate incidents where they are self reporting things like being correctly sexed and these are the figures that TRA groups use to claim that they are the most victimised

Same - probably because trans men are women and no threat. Whereas trans women are men, 99% of them are fully intact, so present the same risk as any other male I might observe whose behaviour is sufficiently odd or non-normative that I would also cross the road to avoid them.

Lexibletheflexible

With regard to your inclusive lesbians.

Are these the ones that belive that you can have sex with a fully intact trans woman and still be a lesbian. Or are they trans lesbians that believe that lesbians should be happy with a "female penis" or they are genital nazis?

This is the most important point.

Yep.

Unfortunately women are supposed to have socially conditioned response to ignore the fact that a man pretending to be a women is a threat.

That is what be kind asks women and girls to do - squash down the instincts that keep us safe.

I walk a lot on my own in quite country lanes, farm tracks etc. I can spot whether someone is male or female from a large distance regardless of their attire and I make a judgment accordingly.
I have also avoided following men into women's toilets for the same reason.

Goodness why wouldn’t they date “trans women”? Sounds a bit transphobic, them being womanly women like all the other women.

/s

I have the same reaction with effeminate men as well. I suspect its an evolutionary response that signals less risk.

Which stats are you talking about here? I’m struggling to find them.

I do know there is a disgruntled man push to paint women as evil, but it’s incredibly difficult to find stats that back them up.

For example they’ve tried to obfuscate stats to suggest that lesbian partners are more likely to be domestic abusers - research that they twisted and left out vital information that the study was looking at all partners, past or present, which happened (surprise surprise) to mostly be men.

Or the skewed stats that abusers of young children were more likely to be women, leaving out that once the figures were adjusted to take into account how many more women are single parents and how many women spend far more time alone with their children. Once adjusted it showed that, once again, men are more likely to be abusive.

So forgive my distrust of anyone with an agenda to paint women as killers when every stat shows that men out-perform women in every criminal area.

You will note that I tend to use trans lobby or TRAs, because the trans people that I interact with are generally nice normal people. So yues I have interacted with trans people and quite regularly as well. Do you?

The footage of GC meets says different, The meet that was interrupted by TRAs was a full convention room in a hotel, so just a few more than 4 as were the LWS meets.

But how many meets/women only venues etc. have to be disrupted before you accept that its an issue? Or are you happy with the threats of violence and rape?

‘Trans’ is a subjective concept.

It’s suspicious that so many trans identifying men discovered their identity after arrest.

Without any objective definition of trans, the only relevant category is sex.

Im sure you can provide evidence of equivalent signs to these at womens events

ill wait

though I suspect t this is your usual hand wavey evidence free minimising intervention

Your anecdotes are not convincing at all.

And you don’t seem to be able to produce evidence to support your claims. Nor then discuss how that information should be used for legitimate discrimination.

It is therefore nothing more than whataboutery.

That makes no sense in regards to the question I asked. We also have far fewer child murders than we do sexual assaults though so what’s your point?

“You hate them as much as they hate you.”

This is where your weak arguments for ‘both sides are extreme’ are only supported by emotional reasoning.

I am yet to meet a feminist or women’s and girl’s rights campaigner who ‘hates’ male people with transgender identities.

You have ascribed hate to discussion. You also seem to have used a false negative generalisation tactic claiming that feminists and women’s and girl’s rights campaigners categorise ‘all’ male transgender people as fetishists, sex offenders and paedophiles. Please post examples of this.

Pointing out that there are issues with allowing male people to access female single sex provisions as being the polarised ‘all of these male people with transgender identities are like that’ is not doing as you assert. However, for robust safeguarding of publicly accessed female single sex provisions, ALL male people are to be treated as equal (except male children of a certain age) . No exceptions in the exclusion of that group.

It doesn’t even stand up that an exception should be made for them in any logic when the statistics are viewed and the knowledge gained from sports about male people who transition still retaining male physical advantages are analysed.