Different instinctive reactions to men and trans women in public

There is a young man that works at our local Tesco - he likes a bit of a mini skirt and a ponytail. You can tell he’s just a big dopey harmless bloke. He looks more scared of the world than you would be of him. So I wouldn't cross the road if I saw him, no, but someone like Isla Bryson? OTT, performative, in-your-face and unstable psycho eyes? Yes, I’d run a mile.

I think the fear women might have of men in public is more nuanced and instinctive than your op suggests.

Try reading the thread.

Any statistic for that or a source?

I do laugh that we keep getting told we don’t know or encounter male people with transgender identities.

I work with one, I encounter others regularly on the street or in stores. I have faced them when I have attended women’s events while they are yelling into loudspeakers about how women are murdering trans people, and a wide range of false accusations.

But apparently, we know nothing of these men.

Women saying male people cannot be female has been described as ‘violence’ in the past.

I would suggest it takes some determination to attempt to suppress women’s discussion about why they need and want male people excluded. What have we seen recently, an unevidenced claim that the majority of women believe that male people are women if they say they are, that most of us on this thread don’t know or come across male people with a transgender identity with any regularity, claims that sex categorisation is complicated and ‘cis’ is not misunderstood and male people with DSDs are not included in the term ‘cis gender women’, that women on FWR are making blanket generalisations that all male people with transgender identities are fetishists rather than pointing out that some are and it is impossible to tell which ones are and which are not.

And the constant lazy claim that ‘both sides’ are extreme and are as bad as each other.

It is just a stream of tropish distractions of unevidenced arguments that are designed to demonise female people discussing why male people should be excluded from all female single sex provisions from around 8years old.

I don't think I've ever knowingly encountered a trans woman outside of a well-lit, busy environment (where I would very rarely cross the street to avoid anyone anyway), so I don't know. I suspect I might not behave that much differently.

But how people are dressed makes a difference. I'd be more likely to cross to avoid someone in a tracksuit than a suit and tie. A man in a dress? I don't know - it could go either way. I often relax walking at night when I see a figure in the distance and then, as they get closer, clock them as female (which in the dark is often because of long hair or female clothes, I can't work out any more than that). If I'd judged someone as female and then realised I was wrong, I don't imagine that would do my anxiety over being attacked much good.

Well what a delightful chap he is.

Here’s the splintery rolling pin one, courtesy of AidaP, a trans identifying man and prolific poster on these boards until he was outed as a violent, rapey piece of work. Note the humorous juxtaposition of the words rolling and Rowling, who says these people are devoid of wit and humour?

I feel a bit disgusted and uneasy when I a transwoman. Same for someone who is clearly drug affected or seriously mentally unwell. I would avoid all.

There’s a trans woman locally - years ago he would have been called a transvestite because he spends most of the time presenting in male coded clothes, but chooses to spend weekends and bank holidays in female coded fetish gear, skirts so short you can see everything, inches high heels, and this marks him out as dodgy to most women.

It turns out he gets off to seeing women’s fear of him, and also gets off at the humiliation he gets from men. It’s an odd combination.
I’m not sure I’d feel any more wary of a half naked tattooed tramp that a man who deliberately sets out to make people feel uncomfortable, and who uses the current TWAW environment to take even more advantage of it.

Hey ho though, predatory men will find a way. Pity so many women are cheering them on.

These are the examples of ‘violent’ language.

“all trans women are sex fetishes”

”you'll hint that they are sex offenders and paedophiles too”.

Compared to:

Threats to rape with splintery rolling pins (as per one poster who was posting in MN at the time)

Decapitate TERFs. https://x.com/gussiegrips/status/1962871684718866848?s=46

and the queen for associating with JK Rowling

x.com/bindelj/status/2081746349075177490?s=46

Punch terfs https://x.com/sorelle_arduino/status/1677950163556474880?s=46

This site below stopped aggregating content because it was just too much

https://terfisaslur.com

Then there is this one from last weekend too, complete with throat slitting action.

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/2081027090921472480?s=20

Notice that the person doing the slitting the throat action is masked up and the people that the masked activist has recognised have no masks and and are not acting in any way intimidating.... I believe this was at Pride, which both the people the activist has done the slitting of the throat symbol at are there as part of the LGB umbrella.

But... sure... 'both sides'.

’Both sides’ is a very very weak argument and every single fucking day there is a slew of evidence why someone claiming ‘both sides’ is using completely assymetrical measurement to then demonise female people who disagree with male people being included in female single sex provisions. It is not just bad faith, it is outright dishonest.

I felt like you re gangs of teenagers messing around and would avoid them but then I realised that I’m actually invisible to them and could walk right through the group and they’d not react at all!

So, incidentally, when were you in prison before male people were being put into female prisons? During when they were put in female prisons? Or after they were removed?

I have only rarely felt compelled to cross a road to avoid any individual. I’m more likely to cross if I see a gang of teenagers arsing about. Usually boys. I have encountered a trans woman who lives near our local shopping centre a handful of times, teetering along on very wonky stilettos. That’s about it. I haven’t crossed the road to avoid him because, like the majority of men, he seems to be just going about his business. In his case trying not to fall over.

Absolutely Lexi - I think that sadly the possibility of abuse would be uppermost in most TW’s minds.

Exactly, you can tell, I think it’s instinctual and we pick up on things without being conscious of it.

If I am out on my own at night and I hear a man walking behind me (yes, after 69 years on this planet, I can tell) then I cross the road. I do so without looking behind me because it's their sex, not their gender identity that is relevant to me.

This but the fact that one is disguised as a woman makes me doubly wary.

I'd rate my chances of running away from a pissed homeless person, this chap sounds more of a risk to himself than passers by. Tho what have you got against tattoos?

I'm not really getting the point of the thread.

The concerns people raise are not about transwomen walking about on the street. Nobody is trying to stop them going out in public!! (Although some will argue that is the case. But it's not, of course.)

What in your opinion do most “trans women” look like? They don’t wear hoodies generally, no.

Please quote some of this “violent” language we come out with on FWR @Lexibletheflexible- are we talking about literal violence or “literal violence”?

What does a dodgy man look like? Tramp like, half naked and covered in tattoos, Hoody top half over his face, drunk, gesticulating and muttering. Not many trans women are like that.

I was agreeing that they may have the same or similar fears as you.

And your trying to claim those alleged comments and statements are analogous with death and rape threats? Really
How about comparing TRAs reporting GC people (predominantly women) to their employers, regulators, college's and the police for stating facts and expressing their legally protected beliefs vs gc people doing the exact same to trans identifying people. Hint it almost all comes from the TRA side.

Then compare the number of death and rape threats coming from TRAs to GC women vs the number of GC women threatening to rape or murder trans identifying people. Hint it all comes from the TRAs.

Prison and crume statistics are one of the bases for all types of safeguarding, not just with trans identifying males