Yeah, I knooooow 😭! I really messed up the title and OP, I'm sorry!

It seems to me that that place of balance and acceptance and body positivity is harder to achieve in an environment where PBs, social transitioning at school, hormones, surgery, flags, legislation, etc etc are on offer.

Obviously. When your personal, inner struggle, is politicised and ideologised, you become a tool in other people's battles, which means you lose some of your freedom of decision, either because they encourage one pathway, or because you feel like you owe someone your loyalty. And obviously, when you're a child, and one side says, "That's okay, you'll outgrow it in time," while the other side is all, "It's so exciting! Come and join us! We think you're So Special! We know exactly how to make you feel all good really quickly!", well...

I gradually accepted what they taught us: that you can't change what you are, but you can change who you are and how you live what you are. They meant in terms of education, social background, etc., but I applied it to my sex/gender confusion.

You do realise you would have a lot to offer to "trans kids" and their parents, right? Don't get me wrong! I'm not saying you have any duty to do anything. I'm just saying that you were there, you were one of them, and you found a way out. How did you do it? That would be incredibly precious information!

'Informed consent' for children about PBs has to include the information that even extreme cases of GD - like my 'I'd rather kill myself than grow up to be a woman' - can and do resolve themselves without any medical intervention.

Absolutely. And research should be done into how those cases resolve themselves. Are there common trends, or identifiable pathways? Is it just a matter of growing older, or are there psychological steps or intellectual understandings that need to be reached? And so on.

you're such a thoughtful and considered commentator on here, you're like a regular down the pub who I'd stop and have a few friendly words with 'Hiya, how are you? how's life treating you? Good? grand so! see you around. Take care. Bye now' before going to meet my pals.*

Aww, thank you - blushing !

As for the gender feelings, I've always struggled to fit in with Bloke Life and the sexist expectations underlying it. It never once made me feel I'd rather be a woman but I've often felt like I'm not really Manny Enough, iyswim.

I think I do. It must be hard in its own way, to feel like somehow you're not enough of, well, yourself! You're a man, that should be enough to be Manny. But no, we have to complicate the matter with things men should or shouldn't do or be. Meh.

Being here really helps clarify the thinking, doesn't it!?

That's... I can only shake my head in complete disbelief. I can only assume that this person didn't seek any psychological preparation and accompaniment? I mean, "Have you thought about the surgical complications that could arise due to your age?" and especially, "How will you handle the professional changes that a social transition will bring?" would be obvious questions to field long before launching the transition process.

Can't say I'm surprised, though. I've seen too many people just step blindly into transition. And if you ask them questions, either they deflect or "they'll see when it happens". That's a recipe for disaster right there.

TRAs typically argue that everyone should be allowed to conceal their sex, and that pre-transition life should be erased, to the extent that even the slightest reference to it is gravely offensive. I feel this approach is untenable:

Agreed. For all the reasons you cite, and also because it puts immense stress on the person's psyche to cut their own life into two parts, which is likely to literally drive them insane. Psychological health is about integrating the various parts of our psyche, not creating more partitions, especially one as severe as this.

It puts people under pressure to transition early and in haste, because pre-transition life is seen as a worthless waste of time

This one is particularly hard for me, because I am a biological mother. I had a son before I transitioned. The idea that I should erase him, or that he should be some kind of mistake I made, or that I should consider myself his father... All of this is horrifying to me. I'm his mother, and I'm happy to be his mother, and I don't want to be anything but his mother - a weird mother, okay, but a mother nonetheless.

Is it feasible to move to a paradigm where trans people are 'out and proud' and pre-transition is just another part of their life with its own joys and sorrows?

Of course it's possible. The problem is that the ones who shout the loudest in trans associations don't want it. I felt extremely constrained in the ways I was allowed to think, when I was in the community, so I left, and I imagine anyone who feels the same as me did the same. Which of course means that the problem only perpetuates itself...

The downside is being 'a transman, but not a man'.

Which isn't that much of a downside, really, because it's the only position that allows for the psychological integration I mentioned earlier. Being a transman means I'm a woman who presents as a man: this is accurate and accounts for both my physical and mental realities.

And also... Quite frankly, I don't understand the trans people who experience euphoria at being succesfully taken for the opposite sex in situations where they cannot participate by virtue of their sex. Like, if a group of men had a discussion about, say, prostate problems, I wouldn't feel euphoria that they take me for a man. I'd feel dysphoria because I'd be horribly aware that I can't participate, and that I'm witnessing something that isn't my business. So sometimes, being "a transman but not a man" is better for me!

I am aware that 'outing' is a big deal, but really it shouldn't be, because there's nothing wrong with being trans.

Exactly. It's not some shameful thing that needs to be kept secret. Unless of course you do have shameful reasons for transitioning in the first place...

you've brought up the concept of 'true trans' - what do you mean by that?

Honestly? Not much. I only mean "those people for whom no cause for their gender dysphoria can be found for now". Under that definition, I'm not even sure I qualify in my own eyes as "true trans", because I do know where my dyphoria comes from: a faulty mental map of my body. If that mental map could be corrected (and maybe it can? But where would I turn to get that avenue explored??), then most likely the dysphoria would disappear.

Still, I hypothesise that maybe, out there, there are people for whom no root cause can be detected - for now at least. Those would be whom I call "true trans". Needless to say, if they exist, there aren't many of them at all.

And what do you make of people - I would say this is the main push behind the current 'trans' movement - who say that gender dysphoria is not required to be transgender, it's 'medicalising' people for being their true selves?

I answered a similar question above: I think it's evil, because it's appropriating other conditions as trans, and especially because it ends up medicalising other conditions without even de-medicalising trans! It ends up rail-roading more people into medical transition, thus turning them into life-long patients when there was no need for it.

But pushing the idea that all women are actually only women because of unspecified feelings - because that framing, removing any definition of 'woman', is the only way TRAs can say TW are literally women - just reveals totally sexist, homophobic and contradictory thinking.

I absolutely agree. I know exactly what I mean when I say, "I feel like a man inside," and it's got zero to do with having unspecified feelings about what feeling or being a man is like. How could I know what being a man is like, or feeling like one?? And anyway, it's not about that at all. It's not about men, or women, or other people at all; it's only about me and my relationship with my body.

I feel the muddling of the two approaches has actually caused more people to consider medical transitioning than persistent gender dysphoria.

Pretty sure that was the point all along...

💯

Bad news, guys: I've asked MNHQ if changes could be made to the title and/or the OP, but they say the changes would change the meaning too much, and would change the context of the replies that have already been posted.

Ah well, that'll teach me to be more careful when posting. Sorry, everyone 😟!

How do you feel about the work done by the trans lobby that has removed gender dysphoria as being part of being trans?

Quite frankly, I think it's evil, because they are quite clearly trying to aggregate people who have nothing to do with being trans, under the trans umbrella, in order to legitimise their de-psycho-pathologisation(?) push. Except that not only do they end up pathologising those other conditions (people who are not trans at all end up transitioning), but I also don't agree with the whole depathologisation in the first place.

Gender dysphoria as I'm experiencing it is clearly a pathology. I mean, I literally don't see my body as it is! There's no rational frame of thought under which this is normal. Moreover, and that's the crucial bit I think, this distorted viewing interferes quite strongly with my life. It has pushed me into making quite severe changes to my body, and it still brings me a measure of dissatisfaction. Taken all together, that's clearly pathological. So arguing that the whole of "trans gender" should be depathologised just doesn't sit well with me.

And then at the same time, they argue that people will kill themselves if they don't transition, and that the NHS should carry the whole cost of transition. Hypocritical and dishonest, much!?

@RareGoalsVerge

I completely empathise with and understand everything you've described in your post.

I just have a minuscule quibble with the conclusion:

But that's not a position that one can decide on rationality grounds to adopt, the heart feels what it feels and wisdom accretes as slowly as a stalagmite and cannot be sped up by effort of will or reading a convincing post on mumsnet.

I would argue that each convincing post on mumsnet is a drop that contributes to making the stalagmite grow 😉One post won't do the trick, sure, but post after post, you know? Still, I agree that the heart feels what it feels, and sometimes we have to resign ourselves to the heart and the brain not being quite aligned.

I totally understand, and I'm actually glad it's been pointed out to me how my title and OP can be read. I really don't want to be seen as promoting the doom view that nothing can be done about gender dysphoria!