Commonwealth Games website (re Caster Semanya)

Funded by the Far Right?!

bioessentialist!
hateful!
vile!
hysterical!
marginalised!

anyone got any more?

Just more recycled misinformation. And the cycle just goes around again.

And you don’t seem to understand what bioessentialism is either @Millie767 .

So… perhaps you shouldn’t try to use gotchas that you found ever so convincing without actually understanding what the fuck you are actually saying.

LOL. It’s not the testosterone level that makes men men. It’s being men.

Mate.

That is just another false representation.

It is the naturally produced testosterone levels in the testes, ie in a body that has been formed around the production of small gametes, that is then processed by the body to virulise that body.

In your hurry to demonise and derogate women who disagree with you, you have got it woefully wrong. You seem very ill informed.

Nope. What makes CS male is that the T was produced by his testes.

Dear dimwit, no.

@Millie767

Someone didn't read (or possibly understand) the whole thread now, did they?

Testosterone levels are not that important. A man is an adult human male. Males have a body that is organised around the production of small gametes. Transmen have bodies organised around the production of large gametes so are not male and not men. This doesn't change no matter how much exogenous testosterone they take.

Oh dear. No. They don't have a functioning SRY which activates testosterone in the same way as they are female. They have not been through male puberty. They are women.

If you're taking about Semanya it wasn't his testosterone levels that made him a man. It's his maleness that makes him a man

His testosterone levels are within the male range because he is male.

Dear bioessentialist Mumsnetters on this chat - if testosterone levels makes someone a man, does this make trans men on HRT men?

I think you're right - their information is simply defective.

The 200m women's CG record holder is elaine Thompson-Hera of Jamaica set at the last games in birmingham 2022.

I don't think there's anything dodgy going on - just straightforward incompetence

The sporting federations of quite a few countries have actively sought out males with this type of DSD to put in their women's events. It boosts their medal haul and has other financial rewards for winning countries.. In the 2016 Olympic Women's 800m Gold, Silver and Bronze were all won by men with this condition - and they all look very mich male.

Semenya has said how he used to enjoy playing football most of all, and he always played it with the boys. I think he was scouted for athletics.

Yes, he's cocky.

In some ways the most important thing about that photo is that it's not something that's been hunted down by some nasty GC type, possibly digitally altered, shared publicly without CS's permission... rather, it's one of CS's favourite photos of himself, chosen for inclusion in his book. It's basically a huge, trolling, wink to the reader.

Yeah I am seeing it differently now. Thanks.

@Lins77 this is a photo of 15 year old Semanya on a school trip. Does this look like someone who thought they were a girl - how many 15 year old girls go topless on a school trip?

@Lins77

Many many people felt like that. That's not accidental - we were encouraged to feel sorry for him; think he never knew, and above all not be aware that this was a loophole that those scouting him and selecting him for the team, for the glory of their country, were only too willing to exploit.

It's the same as the way we are led to feel sorry for other males who identify as women who don't have a DSD ('transwomen'), and never allowed to think or talk about uncharitable interpretations for their behaviour

Edited to add: anyway the way I now feel - it doesn't matter when he knew (he knew) - he had unfair advantage and I feel more sorry for the women from his country who lost out on their chance in elite sport, in medals, and those he competed against. Just like I don't feel sorry for Iman Khelif - he was prepared to punch women in the face and body so he could get his spot in boxing.

I'm still a little confused about this. I remember the situation first arising and I felt very sorry for Caster who I believed at
the time to have been raised and believed herself (as I thought at the time) to be female, despite looking very male when on the track. I thought it must be horrible to be in the situation of having your sex so publicly questioned. I even remember "her" posing for some glamorous magazine shots in makeup, etc.

Didn't realise then that "he" was apparently raised as male - and presumably encouraged to exploit the DSD to win medals.

I don't know, the whole thing seems strange, and I'm still not clear how complicit Caster was or wasn't in deception.

How the fuck are some people ignorant of the fact that caster semenya is a man. And has always been a man. And there is no grey area, nor any doubt whatsoever that he is and has always been a man?!

What is it about this article that leads you to believe that Semenya’s case is not a ‘clear cut situation’?

The quote you highlighted is misleading because it pulls in other conditions.

Semenya has been proven to have 5ARD. his condition is unique to male people because he has TESTES that are actively producing male levels of testosterone that are being processed in his body. This was well known even back in 2009!

That DSD is not a new discovery, it had already been well documented much earlier.

Why should Semenya get special treatment that no other group of athletes get when they find out due to a medical condition they have, that they cannot compete in elite level sport any more?

All this discussion about ‘it’s complicated’ is actually dishonest. It is not complicated. Semenya had choices and he chose to continue to compete because there was a clause that some activists forced into OIC policy and Semenya chose to benefit from it.