The High Court has ruled against Sex Matters in their case against the National Police Chiefs’ Council (NPCC) and British Transport Police (BTP) over their “consensual” searching policies

I suppose it's shift work.

Yawn.

Says someone who's never been arrested.

What about the men who on being arrested suddenly decide to say they are trans just for the lols?

trans lady WTAF

Quite the opposite. Better to lose at lower court and win on appeal to Higher court. Sure it’s costly.

If SM won at the lower court the law would not get settled.

It was Maya Forstater who lost at first instance but won on appeal which has been so important. From that loss and eventual win we have a great judgment and a ppwerful women’s rights activist in Maya. Plus we have Sex Matters.

Yes, the "you should care about [these other things I am going to use to deflect] instead, women" squirrel.

So much wildlife.

No, they have acknowledged how disappointed they are to lose such an important case, and they said they will appeal. Where have they ever spun things to say an outcome was different to what it was? I think you are getting confused and mixing them up with the Good Law Project.

If you’re not live action roleplaying a police officer I’d love to know your police ID so I can report you to the team which ensures “police” aren’t misusing social media to spread bigotry. But of course this will upset your live action roleplaying.

Excellent news, Sex Mattress is going to spin it to make it sound like they won I assume?

Is this Mr Justice Linden the same one in Linzi Smith's case against Northumbria police taking part in Pride? I believe it is.

There’s no such thing as a “trans lady”, they’re just men. And yes some of them are very dodgy indeed, especially the ones who end up in prison, who are more likely than other men to be sex offenders.

Nothing to see, move long. Oh look a squirrel.

As I said, this situation isn’t that common. Certainly not with strip searches. Less intrusive searches are wherever possible by same sex, but honestly, if you knew how few cops are now out there looking after us, the rare dodgy trans lady would not be on your radar. Despite the ‘uplift’ more officers have left and not been replaced than you could imagine. Ask for a ride along. Somewhere nice and busy. Anyone who isn’t a station cat has way too much to worry about out than someone trying to get a thrill from a search. And IF you are asked to search the opposite sex you can say no. This is such a non-issue. I would rather focus be given more to the millions of varying grades of domestic abuse and coercive control which are rampant and notoriously difficult to get through CPS. Or ditto for rape.

Pick and choose whether to follow a law that is on the books or something the high ups have decided to invent to signal the political credentials.

I thought it was an over the top exaggeration, maybe if you're going to illustrate your point with an example you should put less performance into it.

Pick and choose what? The thread is about search powers. And yes, crimes are committed in posh areas too. By posh people. Some really fucking horrible crimes. Just like the poor criminals.

Just re-read….the shoplifting was just an example. Don’t be obtuse.

Do you think there’s herds of trans women running around shoplifting on the chance they might get searched by a female officer?! Jesus.

Live in a posh area do you, the idea of the coppers turning up for shop lifting is hilarious 😂

I guess it's too much to ask for the coppers to follow the law they're empowered to arrest people for breaking. If they can pick and choose, what's stopping the population from doing so?

It’s definitely improved after the Supreme Court ruling but a few years ago a trans man came in (again significant MH issues) and wanted to be searched by a man. The custody Sgt was falling over himself telling everyone to mind the pronouns, but still put her in the female corridor (but TIM’s got to go in the females too?) and generally faffed about the whole scenario.

The male cop did the search but I did wonder how comfortable he felt with it; and would be do it now we’ve moved on and sanity appears to be prevailing. Edited to add - maybe not given the subject of the thread!

Well no, and yes the majority are horrible men, but that’s the thing about safeguarding. You cover for all eventualities. And TIM offenders exist.

Weird flex.

It’s far more likely that a male appearing male will give the little new female officer shit and abuse. Unfortunately the majority of the people who have interactions with the police like hurting themselves or others.

Do you think there’s herds of trans women running around shoplifting on the chance they might get searched by a female officer?! Jesus.

Really interesting @AccidentallyWesAnderson - glad your colleagues would feel able to refuse. And agree it’s a minefield legally re capacity, duress and ability to “consent” to something you aren’t actually consenting to.

Worked with police for nearly 20 years. Never known of a strip search being done by the opposite sex. We only have one trans lady PCSO and PCSOs don’t have search powers. Stop searches are usually done by same sex wherever possible, but sometimes the detainee will ask to just get searched and get on with their day. Everyone arrested has to be searched for their and others’ safety, and if a same sex officer cannot attend at the time then the search will be carried out as necessary. PACE covers all searches. It is incredibly complicated legislation with loads of little sections.

Generally no one gets aroused when either being searched or doing a search. Everyone tends to have other things on their mind. Actually, police hate it as much as those being searched, trust me. Plenty of ‘3 pairs of gloves’ customers.

So if you were a new, young female officer. Only female on shift. And a trans id man asked for a female to search him, you wouldn't feel at all pressured to consent?

This is why we have laws that take these decisions away from the individual. So that they can't be pressured or coerced. They have the law to protect them.

Well, we used to...

This is my area. So our guidance is we can refuse to no detriment. I have been vocally GC in work for a while now, and a bit long in the tooth so no one would be pressuring me. My male colleagues are decent so it wouldn’t happen anyway. However I worry about young, new starts that may feel like they have to or they would be seen as bigoted.

We had a problematic TIM and I saw he had requested to be searched (a standard search) by two females (and this was granted). I would have liked to have been there to see the reasoning, how comfortable they were etc. It’s just a cursory search but still. I can’t see any females agreeing to strip search a TIM. None of my colleagues would.

The other side, yes it’s all on camera but the majority who come into custody are under the influence or have mental health issues. The trans people I’ve dealt with, both male and female, have all had mental health issues. What if they turn round and say ‘I didn’t have the capacity’ which would have detrimental effects on officers who were probably just trying to be kind.

The good thing though is our systems have been changed to ‘biological sex’ and not gender. I’ve been moaning about that for a while!